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00:00:00 Councillor Jurisevic: Good afternoon everybody, welcome to the Services and Organisation Committee meeting for the 6th of April 2021. Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land upon which we meet, the Kabi Kabi or Kabi Kabi people, and pay respects to their Elders past, present and emerging. Thank you for your attendance. Apologies, we'll have a confirmation of the minutes of the last meeting. Deputy Councillor Wilkie, Deputy Councillor Stewart, all in favour? Thank you. No presentations or dissertations today, Mr CEO. We'll move right on to the first item, item 1, Park Road Temporary Park Upgrade, further information. Councillor Lorentson: Adam. Any questions, Councillor? I have a declaration. I, Councillor Lorentson, inform the meeting that I have a declarable conflict of interest in this matter
00:01:00 due to my relationship with Andrew and Catherine St Baker who reside in Park Road adjacent to where the pathway is located. My family have holidayed once with Andrew and Catherine St Baker. My husband is close personal friends with Andrew St Baker and one of my election signs was located at Thomas surfboards and Andrew St Baker is a joint owner of that business. As a result of my conflict of interest, I will now leave the meeting room while the matter is considered and voted on. Thank you, people. Councillor Jurisevic: Okay, any questions for staff? Mayor Stewart: I do. Thank you. Adam, the original path, temporary in nature, was it, did it consist of gravel and scaffolding?
00:02:00 Speaker 3: That was the original intention, that it would be the gravel and scaffolding. It wasn't going to be that temporary. However, when we assessed the safety around using those products, it was deemed that with the approximately 600,000 people that were going to use it, that those products weren't going to be sufficient, so we had to go to concrete. Mayor Stewart: Is it fair to say that there's only sort of on that side of the, and I've walked this path a few times, on that side of the road, there's only about four houses that sort of use that? Speaker 3: There's a number of properties within a couple, but I haven't actually counted each individual property that accesses, but there are a number of properties that do use that service. Councillor Jurisevic: I believe it was in the vicinity of 11 in that couple. I think that's, yeah, approximately that. I believe it was the number that the government wanted. Mayor Stewart: Was it portrayed to the residents in that area at the time that it would be temporary? Speaker 3: So it wasn't really, so it was a temporary path for everybody to use, so it wasn't just for those residents. So what we don't see what's there at the moment is we actually had other delineated traffic control means to get people up onto roadways.
00:03:00 We had lanes closed, so we used half of the park road, then we got them off the road onto that section of path which we have there now. So it was never specifically just for those residents. It actually used the stairs from Little Cove. So we actually sent people from Little Cove up those stairs across down and then across to that concrete section. So it was more, it was for everybody who was accessing from Hastings Street, but we've taken out that on road section. Mayor Stewart: But it was always supposed to be temporary, wasn't it? Speaker 3: Yes, it was. I've never said that this path that we built for the project was more than temporary. It's just that opportunities come since we built. Residents have written to us and said, can you please keep the path? I've had people stop me while walking on the path, you know, this is a great path, we should keep it. That's been all the premise around why this report was brought to Council in the first place.
00:04:00 Is it an opportunity there to repurpose what was originally temporary to consider it for future? Mayor Stewart: And what will the cost be to upgrade it? Because I've been on it and it needs a fair bit of work. Speaker 3: I think it's about $103,000 to upgrade it. Pardon me. And it's about $130,000 to pull it out. So it's... Councillor Jurisevic: Further down to the finance end with the report quoted at $103,000. Again, given the original intent from a temporary perspective was something that was just to facilitate access. So this was an upgrade from that original intent. Speaker 3: Yes. Councillor Wilkie: Excuse me, Adam. There's an item in the report about additional relevant information, unapproved works in the road reserve. Could you just give some context about why that's included in this report? Because it's not really a decision that impacts on whether or not we approve these works on the pathway or not.
00:05:00 Speaker 3: There were some questions that were going around. There are works that we understand are unapproved. Bring in, just mention those within the report so that there's a holistic understanding that it is a complex site. Councillor Wilkie: Yes. Speaker 3: So we're not trying to make a decision on any of those works in any of this or divulge what it is that's being handled separately. But we just want councillors to be aware that it is a complex site. Councillor Wilkie: Yes. Speaker 3: There are impacts to a number of properties by those works, by these works and other things. So it's just something that everyone can be aware of out of that. Councillor Wilkie: And is it your understanding that residents that are living or visiting in the Little Cove area, say in Me Street, Alderney Terrace, Pandanus Street, if they wanted to go to the national park via the coastal way, they would tend to use this pathway as opposed to cross the road to go to the border wall?
00:06:00 No, it's an anecdote. Speaker 3: Anecdotally, that's what I've heard. Councillor Wilkie: Some would use that. And consequently, when they leave the national park, if they had the option of this pathway, they don't need to go up the boardwalk and then cross the park road to get to where they've parked their car or the accommodation? Yes. So is there a social element associated with that? Speaker 3: Well, I've had one person that I ran into who was staying there said, we use this while the tourists use the main boardwalk. Councillor Jurisevic: Yep. Speaker 3: So that they separated themselves from the busyness of the main park road boardwalk and took this lower access pathway. Councillor Jurisevic: I've seen the busyness of park roads as well with the volume of traffic on campus. Speaker 3: That's right. Exactly. And in saying that, though, it is not a heavily accessed pathway either. It's very infrequent. And it was never intended that it would become an equipment. So it's not an equivalent for what I use as the main boardwalk.
00:07:00 Councillor Jurisevic: Look, Councillor, there's been a request for this to go to general communities. I think there's not. Is there any further questions? We've just got one more question. Mayor Stewart: Sorry, I put the mask down. You've had, Adam, you said that there's been people have written to you, residents, saying that they like it. Yes. And how many people have written and said they don't? Speaker 3: Two formerly have written in. Quite strong language that they've used to keep the park. Mayor Stewart: Yep. Speaker 3: Yeah. Mayor Stewart: And what about to take it away? Speaker 3: None. Other than one. Mayor Stewart: Okay. Speaker 3: Yeah. Sorry, you go, Frank. None from that resident group. Just, yeah, one that's beside the park itself, but not from those residents. Mayor Stewart: Okay. So two of four keeping it. Speaker 3: Two of them. Two have written in. Yeah. Councillor Wilkie: I just want a clarification on the centre service. It's not intended that the temporary park be a major facility. Speaker 5: Yeah. Councillor Wilkie: And that the environment be protected. What does it mean? Speaker 3: So we never intended to take our trees, to make it wider, to make the curves and the grades fit.
00:08:00 So it was always let the environment dominate what the temporary asset was going to be. Councillor Wilkie: So it's not intended that the temporary park be a major facility. Okay. Speaker 3: Yeah. So we were never intending that. Councillor Wilkie: You intended protecting the environment. Speaker 3: Yes. Exactly. It was only ever intended to be temporary. The main boardwalk was where all the attention went. Councillor Wilkie: Yes. It's just a wording question. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yep. I have a rule. Mayor Stewart: Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Second. Councillor Jurisevic: Council Wilkie. All in favor. Thank you.
00:09:00 Mayor Stewart: Michael, this is very thorough and thank you and the team for your hard work on this. My question is that this is a lot more work for not only the tenderers but also council staff. There's more compliance. There'll be, you know, it's an increased workload. We know that we're looking at a $47 million capital budget. We know that our resources are tight. Do we have the capacity to deliver this and whose shoulders will all this work fall on? Speaker 4: Yep, good question. The, look, a lot of this work will be, will come through to the finance, so myself, financial services. You notice under the finance section we did mention that where needed we would outsource some of this work. So there's some experienced consultants that can do this work for us as well if needed. So, you know, we juggle that resourcing requirement, I think, on a case-by-case basis depending on the projects.
00:10:00 Mayor Stewart: But you're confident that you can deliver? Speaker 4: Yes, sure. Councillor Jurisevic: Just out of curiosity, based on what you said for thresholds, how many tenderers, tenderers, or tenders, you think we'll need to get this additional level of assessment? Speaker 4: If you hadn't given me warning, I probably could have had an answer to that. Just thought of it then. I don't know, but there'll be quite a few in the next couple of years, based on our forward capital program. Councillor Lorentson: Can I ask a couple of questions, Michael? Was this policy developed as a result of the Rikon collapse? Speaker 5: Yes, it was. Yes. Councillor Lorentson: So where are we up to with the legal case, and had the QVCC cancelled Rikon's company licence, and had they been excluded by the, for, excluded for, in the building industry, and if so, for how long? Speaker 4: Look, possibly not within the scope of this item. They'd have to be taken on notice to
00:11:00 provide that information, because I'm not privy to that at the moment. Councillor Lorentson: And given that the... The policy documents is an exercise in due diligence, my question is, in a Rikon case, and again, you might have the same answer, was Council found to have not exercised proper due diligence by not requiring PBAs and ensuring that Rikon had the financial capacity to remain solvent? Speaker 4: I, again, I'd have to take that on notice. Okay. Councillor Jurisevic: Are you not familiar? Councillor Lorentson: I've got some other questions here. On page 11, Michael. So under project delivery, there's a requirement, so we're talking about statutory declarations. Again, I make reference to the Rikon. In the Rikon application, the statutory declarations, my understanding was that they were, they were,
00:12:00 they were bound to have made false statutory declarations, so to avoid that from re-happening, can we perhaps add a line there where Council is required to actually contact the subbies to make sure that they're being paid and not rely, rely on the representation for a statutory declaration? I just don't think that that ensures that we're not going to have a duplication of a Rikon. Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, look, I note your point. I was very specific in the wording, though, in the policy, and you'll see it mentions this may include the verification of statutory declarations, not just receipt of, so verification by its definition means confirming that those declarations are true, which would entail contacting the subcontractors regarding those payments. Councillor Jurisevic: Interesting. Now, would that be the most significant change in the way that the procedure was undertaken
00:13:00 previously to the way that this policy was implemented? Dealing with the tenders and those statutory declarations? Speaker 4: It goes away, but this policy focuses more on the upfront risk mitigation, so it's not relying on sort of project delivery management and contractor management per se. It's actually mitigating the risk to the extent practical that you're going to get a contractor that's going to resolve it. Okay. So, in the project delivery stage, there are additional mechanisms that we need to go through to ensure that the project's delivered and that the contractor remains solvent. Because obviously you can do a pointy time assessment, and it mentions it in the report, however you need the ongoing checks as part of the project delivery to make sure that you manage the risk around the contractor and their solvency. Speaker 6: Joe, the other one is also in that same section that Amelia's talked about, talks about the
00:14:00 option of establishing project cross-bank accounts. Mayor Stewart: Michael, just in regard to, this is certainly more onerous on the tenderers and also council, what are other councils doing in this space comparatively? Is this sort of a first, or are other councils going to these lengths? Speaker 4: I did a bit of benchmarking or a bit of ringing around my networks, and I'm not aware of many councils that have a policy position on this. It's a bit ad hoc at the moment. Obviously, there's legislation in place around the building industry, and that's going to roll out over the next few years, and the local government will get caught in that, which is good. We're just obviously being proactive, and like we said, similar to our financial sustainability policy, where we're trying to be proactive and get in front of the curve here.
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00:15:00 But yeah, no, it's not, A, it's not a mandate to have a policy position or a guideline. I think, B, it's just us trying to risk manage appropriately and learn from, obviously, the Rikon experience that hurt us last year. Councillor Jurisevic: Have the state or feds undertaken any sort of position or policy in that regard, with regard to their tenders? And are we following suit? Along the lines of what they're doing? Speaker 4: Yeah. I've seen some guidelines from the federal government and their procurement around some, and they're more around guidelines. I haven't seen a firm policy position, but obviously, there's guidelines around how you manage risk around tenders and so on, and some of what we've used is based on some of that. Councillor Jurisevic: That's what I was looking to see if we're following their parameters. The other question I've got here, which regards to some of the requests that council is
00:16:00 making to, for documentation, are we broaching privacy in any way, shape or form, with regard to business activity? Speaker 4: Not as long as council abides by the Privacy Act and our internal procedures. So, yeah, there's no issue there. And what we do, if we do outsource any of this work, we ensure that consultants sign confidentiality agreements. Mm-hmm. So we cover that off as well. Councillor Jurisevic: Have we spoken to any of the contractors with regard to this documentation and requested documentation on that to see what their thoughts are on it? Speaker 4: No. Probably because- Councillor Jurisevic: They'd be saying it's too aimless? Speaker 4: Possibly. Councillor Jurisevic: Okay. Speaker 4: However, we have done a test run of this already with the famous Rufus Street Tender. It worked very well, so. Councillor Jurisevic: So that's an indication that you have, yeah, you actually have spoken to contractors and put this in place. Councillor Wilkie: So it's clear that this policy, as has been said before, has resulted from lessons learned
00:17:00 with the RICON insolvency. With RICON, the tender was awarded according to the regulations that existed at the time. That's been in shape up since. Mm-hmm. I note that you've put in here that this policy is not intended to be a substitute for solid and sound project management. It's to be in addition to and in addition to. It's to provide an extra level of governance and oversight above that and also mention that contractors still have a legal requirement to trade while sold and that despite all this due diligence, should a contractor fall over, none of the liability then impacts on council. What this policy seems to do is assure council that the preferred tender has the capacity to pay.
00:18:00 I noticed that staff decks will still form part of this process, but you've mentioned before you're taking the added step of actually verifying some of the staff decks rather than taking them at face value, which has caught a lot of people out in the past. So, yeah, because there is that ethical consideration. We as council have one, I'm sure, and I'm sure the staff do as well, if the subcontractors are paid, especially if they're working on a council project. It's a very thorough undertaking. You've got a whole lot of different measures here, very detailed, by which you're going to assess these financial reports for. You've got four years of audited statements, so you can detect trends. And you'll be essentially overseeing this project, the sort of assessment, Michael, have I read this correctly?
00:19:00 Yeah, that's correct, yes. And I guess you would sleep easier knowing that this sort of process has been undertaken for future tenders. Speaker 4: I think it will mitigate a lot of our risk. It obviously might cost us a little bit more in the long run. However, you know, we want to... We want to avoid at all costs any insolvencies going forward, particularly those that impact on subcontractors and local subcontractors as well. Councillor Jurisevic: But given that statement, Colleen, I can only recall one insolvency in the past seven years that this council has had to deal with. How many others are you aware of with other councils nearby that we've... Saco Coast, Gold Coast, Brisbane Council? Speaker 6: We also have one we avoided too. You might want to talk about that one, the first boardwalk tender. Speaker 4: Yeah, look, we did follow-up process a few years ago where we did identify a bit of a risk which we avoided in terms of early sort of involvement in the tender process to effectively stop the tender process and then start again.
00:20:00 Councillor Jurisevic: Oh, we did that. Speaker 4: Was that with Eric on that? No, that was a different one. Yes, but I'm aware of a couple across the state, a bit of an insolvency sort of for local government. Okay. Speaker 6: Well, the same one we were affected by affected Finty and Sunshine Coast. That's right. Sunshine Coast were the same company. Councillor Wilkie: So Michael said you have the capacity to share this approach with other councils through your networks? Speaker 4: Yeah, look, obviously once we adopt the policy and guideline, it'll be publicly available and, yeah, I'm sure I'll refer my colleagues to... to have a look at it, if still might be. Councillor Wilkie: Sorry, just one last question. And the information that you're requesting tenderers to provide for use of audited statements, they should have that all on hand?
00:21:00 Yeah. Any... It should be readily available. Probably everyone out there should have their audited statements available to the press at the moment. Yeah. Thank you. Councillor Lorentson: My other concern, Michael, and I think you've raised it in the documentation, and hence why you're going to be collating some data over the next 12 months, my concern is, does this process make it difficult for smaller local suppliers, and given that we as a council have an obligation to achieve this value for money in our procurement, and in my opinion, small local businesses are often the ones that are going to be the ones that are going to be the ones that are going to be the ones that are going to be the ones that are going to be the ones that are going to be the best value against, say, larger companies. How are we going to allow small local businesses to compete or win contracts if we're asking for all this additional information, including, I think there was a legal requirement to get a solicitor to provide information that the company remains solvent?
00:22:00 Are we disadvantaging our small local businesses? Speaker 4: Possibly. I would probably suggest, based on the thresholds that we've got in the guideline, that we're not. 500,000 and over, yeah. Because if our local suppliers want to go for our bigger projects, which we encourage, obviously there's potentially a little bit more element of risk. Councillor Wilkie: Yeah. Speaker 4: But I don't think, in terms of the criteria and the indicators that we're putting in that we want to assess on, there'll be disadvantage compared to a bigger supplier. Because obviously, if you look at some of the criteria, they're based on ratios and that, which aren't based on your value, it's more proportionate to your business. And look, as Frank mentioned, look, I don't think it'll be too onerous on them just providing that information.
00:23:00 Councillor Lorentson: That's information I'm imagining they already provide the ATO, property loss statements and et cetera, company payroll, whether they've got the ability to pay payroll. Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay. The solicitor's representation, there's more around, are there any contingent liabilities that they're aware of that could impact the, you know, that's the type of thing we're asking for, so. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, one of the different sort of companies that are dealing with the size of tenders that the thresholds are associated, are around would be, you know, limited liability companies that have gone through a few processes and all the rest of it, you know, in setting up, so. Speaker 4: But as we've mentioned, we'll continue to monitor that and then we'll take, obviously, the number of tenders received from local suppliers, even qualitative feedback from them in terms of the, you know, we will ask them questions as we go through this process about, you know, is it, is there any reasons that it's causing them particular impact that we can then reassess and look at what we're doing.
00:24:00 Councillor Jurisevic: Yep. See the impact that we're creating on them. Councillor Wilkie: I'm happy to move. I second it. Councillor Jurisevic: Councillor Wilkie. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Stewart. Councillor Jurisevic: All those in favour? Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for all the work you've done to report on that. This is excellent. Thank you. Working through that very difficult issue. Item 3. The Waste Management Six Monthly Report, July to December 20. Speaker 2: Good afternoon everyone. I'd like to introduce Rachel Hannah. So Rachel is, how long have you been with us now? About five months. Five months. So she's our environment officer. Ian's taking some well deserved leave this week so we thought we'd take the opportunity to bring Rachel up who's acting in Ian's role.
00:25:00 Mayor Stewart: So she'll be able to answer your questions. Rachel, my question's on bins. Someone put on Facebook during the week, I thought it was about some Brisbane bins where they're looking at, they're doing commingling bin, a general waste bin. Compostable. There's four different and then it can contain a refund scheme bin. Is there the ability to look at doing those extra bins here in those public places for Noosa? So just the commingling has apparently been working really well and it's actually decreased. I read somewhere, I did some research in Sydney in March 2021, a restaurant decreased their costs from $41 per week down to $31.20 per week.
00:26:00 That was using a commingling bin. So I'm just wondering if there's, there was an opportunity potentially to look at these sort of bins in our, what do you love, Hannah Jo? In our sort of, yeah, more of our sort of, I guess, our public spaces and our commercial areas. Speaker 1: We're definitely looking at some of those options. We've got a waste strategy in the works, which I'm sure Ian's, has come to light at times. So we've got the waste strategy being prepared at the moment and there's definitely options that we're looking at for alternate bins. If we increase it or we reduce it or how we, how we manage it, what options we put there. And that also depends on what facilities are available for where we can send that material, the cost involved in that as well. So it's going to, we're going to have options come out in that strategy and we'll look at that and go through it as it comes up. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. We've been encouraging businesses to take commingled recycled bins for a number of, a number of years now, which will help reduce their costs. Yeah, absolutely. If they want to turn away bins into, into additional recycled bins.
00:27:00 We've introduced the green waste bin, which businesses are entitled to, to have an element of. And we've been talking with Hastings Street because of the plastic free Noosa element of the opportunities for compostable bins in that Hastings Street project, a precinct within, in the very near future. But again, the waste strategy will be doing that. Yeah. And we've had an element of trials of compostable waste with the food and wine business, one of the plastic free events that they run in, in trialling where compostable waste could go. Mayor Stewart: Yeah. And the container refund scheme they seem to do in Brisbane as well, which is, I don't really know anything about that. Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure about, I'm not aware. I mean, certainly here the container refund scheme is handled through our not-for-profit agencies. Yeah. And through other agencies. It's not something that council specifically collects for through, in the post phase. But that's not to say that we couldn't investigate that. As Rachel said, that's what the waste strategy's about.
00:28:00 It's looking at our, what our current environment is going for and what are the options that are right for into the future. Mm. Councillor Jurisevic: Given that a private contractor handles the CDS schemes and the return facilities, they have bins available. So any event could approach that, that agency to have bins at their events. Would make sense at the restaurants. And any business, and the same thing, not-for-profit. Councillor Lorentson: Rachel, this is maybe a curly one for you. In September last year, I was approached by a group of anglers. They were 10-degree residents in Mainsails Square in Noosa Hill, who woke up one morning to yellow lines marked on their road. One of the explanations they were given was that the clean-away truck could not complete a full turn in the cul-de-sac. Can, what is the situation with the clean-away trucks?
00:29:00 Can we ask or commission smaller trucks? Because we've got quite a number of narrow and smaller streets in the Shire. And I would hate to think that there's going to be another street that wakes up with, again, yellow line markings on the street for the same reason that one of the clean-away trucks couldn't negotiate the turn. Speaker 1: Yeah. So with that situation, the trucks that are in there are actually appropriately designed to be able to go into that area. What I think some of the issues with that complaint or the residents in that area were, was they weren't accounting for other obstacles that were in the way of the truck. So it comes down to a safety issue and being able to make sure that we're providing safe space and we're not creating more damage to things like gutters, letter boxes, other amenities in the area. So it's providing that safety area. To get smaller trucks in is a lot more of an expense to ratepayers because what we've got contracted to the area is what's in place for the time being.
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00:30:00 To get an additional truck on the roads is in the magnitude of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars more. And that comes to the ratepayers' expense in the long run. Councillor Jurisevic: Additional trips to and from the facility to empty and the like. But the cul-de-sacs have been designed with the trucks in mind. Councillor Lorentson: Yeah. So do we have the ability to engage or at least consult with the residents before the line markings get placed on the street for these reasons? My understanding is that the residents weren't consulted. They simply, people that have been living in the street for 20 odd years, simply woke up one morning with the yellow line markings. Is there an opportunity for us to introduce a consultative sort of approach? Residents are at least invited to provide solutions or be part of this of the decision-making process.
00:31:00 Absolutely and explained this before the event. I can't make comment on whether or not that happened Speaker 1: because that was prior to me starting with council but I'll take that on board and we'll carry that Councillor Wilkie: going forward. One question about the reporting on page 21 the diversion rates. It looks like construction and demolition waste they have a 99% diversion rate which really well exceeds the target of 75% so that's excellent but there's a municipal solid waste diversion rate of 22% which doesn't include recyclables falls below the 55% target. If it did include recyclables what sort of rate would that that be? Speaker 1: Would it be closer to 55%? Well it's looking at it's looking at different targets there so
00:32:00 basically recycling and co-mingled recite goes down a different stream and a different a different management measure. What we're looking at here so with this one here is basically diverting what's ending up in landfill so we've got the option to use co-mingled recycling and we can divert that way but what we're talking about here and what these targets are aligned specifically to what's ending up in the landfill which is our red bit our red bit. Red bins red top bins and um so the 22% is looking at what people are coming through the gate what they're going into the the transfer station and recycling the concrete and the metal polystyrene any of that sort of stuff and what they are actually diverting but unfortunately we're not actually hitting the mark of how how much we should be recycling and that needs to be. Councillor Jurisevic: The fact that we've got green and food waste still going into the general waste bin we've also got recyclables that could be going into the co-mingled yellow bin. Yeah so there is a big push to be able Speaker 1: to get organic waste um being diverted which would add about 30 to 40 percent onto this figure so a big
00:33:00 a big goal for us is to get the Fogo system in place and start diverting our food waste because that's what's going to get us to that target the recycling in terms of co-mingled and yellow top Councillor Jurisevic: bins different stream. Right the other element that I've been before you started on council was the bin audits that were being undertaken and the improvement to that contamination of the general waste bin as a result of that education process. Yeah a big part of that is the behavioural Speaker 1: change and making sure that people are aware of what needs to go in what bin and encouraging that separation of material and reducing as much as possible as what actually ends up in landfill. Councillor Wilkie: The other question I had last year was page 20 the 240 litre bins the numbers actually dropped by about 500 240 litre bins from 31st of December 2019 31st of December 2020 for the 240 litre bins
00:34:00 refuse bins uh it said dropping bin numbers for that is due to reduced service levels during the COVID pandemic does that mean there were wouldn't the same number of bins be out in the community why why did the number of bins in the community fluctuate by 500? Speaker 2: We offered the opportunity for reduced services for commercial facilities so some of those bins actually came back and it's there's been an opportunity for them to actually review their bin services as to whether or not they need them going forward so for example the restaurant was closed Speaker 6: yeah we said rather you're having to pay to keep the bin give the bin back or take it back off you Speaker 2: and you're not going to have any fees and it also is that during that period um they identified so they might have had say several red top bins but actually potentially they didn't need several red top bins because they might be diverting more to recycling and so they might have stepped back a number of bins and they might have taken a bigger recycling
00:35:00 Councillor Jurisevic: bin from 60 litre bins with the number of recycling bins that actually went up yeah Rachel oh sorry Frank Councillor Wilkie: sorry anecdotally the um the amount of waste to landfill i understand always generated by the community and subsequently the landfill for that period compared to the 2019 was higher is that true or not like there's no competitive unless i've missed it yes so we generate more yes Speaker 2: so um i guess this is interesting and a lead up to a discussion that we'll be having um in a couple of months around our annual curbside bulk annual curbside is that we didn't have that period we didn't have that service but still the material the material made its way to the site so there certainly was an increase and anecdotally we hear that you know people were at home so they
00:36:00 did a lot of clean outs there was certainly a lot of construction work that occurred so materials coming through that way thank you sorry no Kerry i've just got one more question Mayor Stewart: i'm not sure if this is for you rachel just the um looking at the gas network and heat mapping areas and there's an additional 11 gas wells were installed yeah um on page 24 now 63 percent of our our council emissions come from landfill that's correct isn't it is there more opportunity to to to install more of these and if so are we doing it or is it a cost is you know is it costly or are we budgeting for it because this seems to be a great way to capture those those emissions and and really i mean landfill i see is our biggest environmental problem yeah one of them we're Speaker 1: um we're definitely planning to install as many as we possibly can so the 11 that went in initially it was only planned for about nine and we managed to get an extra two right and that was just by
00:37:00 giving allowing an extra two or three months worth of work to get those additional bubbles in um there is potential for more it just depends on when we get to interim landform level and so however long it takes us to get to that level once you've installed the wells they need to be basically left alone for a minimum of five years so we don't want to go back into that area and have to disturb them so when we get to a certain section that it's economically viable for us to go in and install more wells and we're not going to go back into that area anytime soon we can put an additional Mayor Stewart: so you put as many as you can in that area yeah so instead of nine we managed 11 in that particular Councillor Jurisevic: okay so the process behind capturing more methane is to trap it cap it utilize it and then burn Speaker 2: so one of our components of the waste strategy is looking at is their potential to go to the next level with our um you know
00:38:00 at the moment we we cap it we're extracting it there are examples now of actually turning that methane into electricity generation so but to be able to do that we have to achieve an optimum level of capture okay and so that will be the interesting discussion we're going to have because there's various views on then how much for example organic material needs to be in the landfill to get an optimum amount of methane to enable power generation we also have our capital works Speaker 1: projects one of our capital works projects that are coming up is doing final capping on one of the Speaker 6: cells which will help us to increase our methane capture ironically going forward the best result for us is not to have any methane gas well because we don't have green waste blue someone going to create the gas and that's the ultimate and what we're doing at the moment it's really playing
00:39:00 catch up on what's going to be cool yeah um so that's the challenge for us yeah okay um in regards to Councillor Lorentson: illegal dumping um rachel uh have we experienced an increase or decrease 242 how does that compare against um january to july 2020. i'm going on page 19. service request for waste 242. Speaker 1: so we've definitely seen an increase in illegal dumping it's it's a matter of Councillor Lorentson: how you manage it and how you capture it that's so is the deterrent and that's my next question is the fine enough to actually provide a deterrent
00:40:00 why do you why in your opinion do you think there's been an increase it's providing evidence Speaker 1: to prove accountability so how do we a lot of it's happening in places that we can't prove so we've got certain hot spot areas that we do have cameras in that we are monitoring and we are being successful in a lot of ways there but we're also losing cameras there's people that are catching on to that um so there's other there's other issues um and there's a lot of cameras to Councillor Wilkie: film people Speaker 1: but a lot of the issue is coming from places like out front of unit blocks and things where we can't it's not a hot spot we can't identify it and then it's it's proof so for instance one will come in saying unit nine disposed of this rubbish out the front you go to the unit block and there's only five units so there's there's no accountability and no way to prove it to anyone or hold anyone accountable i don't know whether that could be that they could just Councillor Jurisevic: don't have the capacity to dispose of uh their waste and that would have been the front hoping
00:41:00 that someone will take it um the fact that we haven't had a curbside cleanup for 18 months or so so the the facilitation of a council service to uh to assist uh may not be there certainly some of the anecdotal evidence that we uh that i've seen from cleanup australia days we've seen uh less of it in some of the uh the areas where it's been put in the bush that the guys find in the bush yeah so it's been taken from one location being disposed of somewhere else Speaker 2: and sometimes Amelia um it's material that um which is the stuff that's a high concern for us that is problematic so it couldn't be it couldn't be put out for annual curbside clean up because it's toxic it's um it's asbestos it's gas bottles it's things like that that can't be about tires um so um you know it's that difficult thing and it's about people taking responsibility
00:42:00 um and you know part of the strategy looking at you know the education behavioural changes well what is it that would be required for people to take ownership and responsibility for that is there an educational carrot approach or does it require a different type of compliance approach Councillor Wilkie: um a question about the you've mentioned a manager of waste and environment help retired in december 2020 how's the department managing without him or her and um when are you intending to recruit Speaker 2: a new manager so two parts of the questionnaire um obviously wayne had been here for such a very long time so that loss of corporate knowledge um is significant um but by the same token we've got high and highly capable people who have you know highly qualified well experienced so the
00:43:00 day-to-day operations of the branch continue in terms of recruitment we are just looking at that at the moment and it was likely that that will go out in about six weeks i would imagine so we took that opportunity just because we had two vacant manager positions with the environment so the waste and environmental health and local laws just to have a look at that because it's very rare to have those two management positions taken at the one time to see whether there was you know any um room for changing the way that we do things the change Councillor Wilkie: of the branch etc i'm just talking to some of the staff down there that they're they're very excited to be working in this field with a lot of innovations taking place in this area yeah and so what sort of what sort of person are you looking for Speaker 2: and i think that's a really good question frank because waste is very different recruiting to
00:44:00 waste now is very different to where it would even have been 10 15 years ago the manager in that space is needing to lead a process to put in place a strategy to make decisions um that you know my grandchildren um will feel the um impact of um you know those big decisions and you know those big changes around our landfill has a finite life space big choices around do we go fogo what about advanced waste treatment so the person that we need to bring on board has to be able to have a really good understanding of those big strategic issues a contemporary understanding of the options out there but also the pragmatic approach to all understanding nooses size and philosophy and that the constantly it's almost a constantly changing environment in the waste space but also some level of sitting in
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00:45:00 concrete and going nowhere while it all plays itself out so somebody that's got that really good strategic oversight and ability to work through a process to make good decisions for this council but because of the size of nisa they need to be able to have an oversight of the day-to-day operations i mean we've got very good operational management in place but it's so it's more strategic Councillor Jurisevic: role this one and there's some interesting challenges going forward with the uh the federal government environment ministers uh now coming to the fore and uh and starting to implement um the universal yes uh strategies uh for like coming over the top three minutes three minutes consistently consistent across the entire the entire nation as opposed to the way we have at the moment sort of one two and three bins scattered across different uh are they doing much to handle to handle packaging packaging packaging is one of the uh the main one of the first areas that they did tackle and you can see that now uh um certain um uh corporate um entities are advertising the
00:46:00 fact that they use recycled product in their uh uh in their walls that's part of the the packaging cabinet that's uh that's been implemented that uh has to be uh fully uh recycled content uh or for all practicing be uh come back to be all recycled by um 2023 or 2025 i think it might have been Speaker 2: extended to this so it's a really interesting space because often council is um you know developing its strategies in the context of so maybe predominantly a state influence or predominantly in this one we've got federal and state and then obviously what's happening in the global so really influencing um our thinking and decision making we need to be cognizant of being able to respond to both of those and i understand there's been a lot of Councillor Wilkie: thinking about the shift from perhaps a 240 litre bin per household to a one 140 litre bin um is there going to be some more thinking around how we encourage that shift is it
00:47:00 possible what are the risks around doing once again and so um i'll mention that Kerry because i know that there's a it's a lot of interest in it yeah there's a street in the incursion that want to do that yes yes so there's a test site if you're interested so you might have that it is much Mayor Stewart: rubbish Speaker 2: one of the reasons that we have slowed down the work we're doing on the strategy is because we need the waste new waste manager to come on board so that the strategy is not running ahead of them because there will be practical implications to this and we want the perspective of a new manager in that there's lots of debate about the value or not of smaller bins and whether they're just good symbolically or whether actually practically they might deliver a change in behavior but then we have to weigh up the cost of that and the trucks etc um given that we're we're a
00:48:00 long way off a new contract so um different sort of trucks they need it's there's something slightly Speaker 1: different i don't have the information do you yeah i'm not across the exact details it's only a slight change yeah Speaker 2: um but in a contract this size a slight change can be a big variation Councillor Jurisevic: program like the war on waste encourage people to reduce the amount of waste that we need their general waste bin and waste champions out there want to be the ones that are demonstrating that Speaker 2: they've got 140 litre bins as opposed to two really fantastic we wouldn't be making any change to bin sizes though before we've considered the fundamental issue of FOGO Speaker 1: yeah thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you it's really important not to not to create too many changes that's in a short space of time because it's all a behavioral thing yeah so you've got to implement it stage by stage yeah and not
00:49:00 Councillor Jurisevic: overrun it and of course you've got an element of state state legislation in there that we've got that challenges uh any introduction of FOGO in in this space to other states so yeah and that's again where to start the feds have started to look at um keeping everything on a single level across all states as opposed to differences thank you thank you i've got i've got one question um on page 25 and your environmental work within the next six months include late for offsets review and Speaker 1: management assistance yes that is my project tell me more because it's the first i've heard of the offsets so when we did the original clearing for the the amendment to the da back in 2005 we had about an additional 21 hectares of land that we had to clear for the additional food cells that we're currently working in part of the conditions of clearing works was to have some offset areas which
00:50:00 we put in around lake mcdonald somewhere between the amalgamation and de-amalgamation a lot of the records have gotten lost the management the ownership of the land is also now with seq water so we don't own the land but we have the responsibility to still provide the offsets we've got five years left to provide them and in consultation with des at the moment we're not at the state well they're not at the current state that they need to be at to reach the goal so as of this the end of this week the rain keeps pushing it back but we've got some consultants going out and they're starting to do some assessments and surveys of the area to find out what in today's date the current state of that vegetation is and then moving forwards we need to come up with a plan or a strategy for the next five years to make to make sure they reach our Councillor Jurisevic: targets so there may be some additional collaboration required with sq water or Speaker 1: yeah we're working with sq water on it for access and to get into how we're going to manage it and what we're going to do they've been incredibly cooperative so that's been really good i don't
00:51:00 Speaker 5: think that would be an issue for that particular property or could we change that offset to another Speaker 1: i think we're restricted to what's already been Councillor Jurisevic: is it specifically a parcel of land that we've identified with that offset Speaker 1: 27 parcels of land so we've actually provided additional offset area to what was originally required of us and there's 27 parcels of land out there we've got more than more than enough space to try and meet those targets but it's just once i get these survey results back they're the sort of options i need to look at and that offset would be made it would be under Speaker 6: council's ownership that way Speaker 1: but it is protected under conservation status so no one can go in and the difference as well is that the legislation has changed around offsets as well between now and then so if we go and try and make changes to our current offsets we might not be held to the same conditions we originally had it might change to the new legislation which becomes
00:52:00 well we're always looking at that because of the definitely options yeah but we might be at the state it needs to be at so i'll find out once these services are here to follow up on that yeah Councillor Jurisevic: that was the only one i wasn't uh i wasn't familiar with what was happening here so yes thank you tom Speaker 5: you had a question uh yes concerning that um the report that was at the time for the mr a pro um company that that's doing uh the strategy strategy for us how is that going yeah it's good Speaker 2: so they are working their way focusing so all the background work has been done as i said we're slowing the strategy work down just to wait for the new manager to come on board it's really important that they have input into the strategy and ownership over at the end because they have to deliver it so the piece of work that they're focusing on at the moment is preparing for us all
00:53:00 to have the discussion around the annual bulk curbside collection they're doing a piece of research and analysis and looking at the options in that and we'll um we'll be presenting that i think it's next month next or i think it's this month yeah is it yes yep Speaker 5: so that's what they're focusing on at the moment and then um racial for the fogo you mentioned you know your yeah yeah what is your personal like view of where we should go with that 100 on board Speaker 1: with it i think it's one of our the biggest things we can do to reduce our impact i mean there's there's a full circle a closed loop that we can we can generate there from the initial production of it through to how we treat it to selling it to local locals um and within the local buying market but the problem and it's being recognized at the state and a federal level is making sure that everyone is on board with that so it doesn't just come down to us as a council or individual councils and saying if we want to do it you've got to make sure you've got people that are
00:54:00 willing to buy it we need to make sure as council we're willing to invest in it and get our own people using it and using the end product to make sure that we're getting the full loop and circle but it's i think it's a brilliant idea and i'm 100 for it quickly what is the next level down so Speaker 5: are there micro processing plants you know through noosa or is it all going to one particular central plant or how do you see that that's what we're developing they're giving us options but Speaker 1: we're in we're in conversations with people where we can where we can send it and get it processed and it will become composted and turn them to it will be up to them to what level or standard they want to turn the product into but we are in conversations about what we can do with that as the legislation Councillor Jurisevic: facilitates it tom more there's more likely new businesses that will be opening up and looking for there's environmental impact assessments that need to be done on all of these sort of things as well Speaker 1: because there's also federal legislation that by 2030 yeah you have to be diverting organic waste so there is federal backing here
00:55:00 Speaker 6: what's called the regional level up in southeast queensland about you know waste for energy plant type issues and you know they're hundreds of millions of dollars to make work and need huge volumes to be able to drive sufficient energy to make them reliable then you come down to a sub-regional level and you've got you know anaerobic digesters or things like that which might require someone like unity water and a couple of councils to get together to put enough material in to be able to drive that type of issue as well to get a byproduct that has the market so there's a bit of those some of those studies have been going on for a while yeah it's really about proving up the commercialization of those which is the big thing and certainly if you look at what's happening overseas places like germany and france they've been doing this for years but the economy so the economics over there are quite different they don't have fast tracts of land they can just put a hole and stick it in at very low cost so australia's always had that option available to be able to do that and we you know we're not sitting on a burning platform
00:56:00 here we've got 40 years of life in our now yeah tip so deal with it there joe um so that's uh but you know so that we're not sitting here desperate there are other places where they are going to run a room about what they can do with their their waste and where do they put it and so the the economics around that changes very quickly if you have to acquire land which has a value to be able to do something with it or you make a decision to put it through an Speaker 2: anaerobic gesture or whatever it might be so one of the other big challenges that we've got that europe doesn't is that we've got transport challenges in terms of the distance um that we would have to transport our waste so even though um the science behind advanced waste or waste energy is um proving itself you know you know day by day that the economics are a huge challenge we've got to actually transport that and there's obviously not only the financial
00:57:00 cost but the environmental cost in transporting it so different factors have to play in here um we can't apply simply apply the research from overseas to australia Councillor Jurisevic: the the uh the first waste to energy plant in new south wales was proposed in blacktown i heard about five years ago at the waste conference and i still don't think it's past environmental approval and all of it as far as i'm uh in my recollection i have to go back and have a look but i don't think it's uh it's been facilitated yet so there's environmental The final approvals are also a challenge with regard to some of these processes going forward. Speaker 2: And while there's still movement in the legislative space, both in the strategy and legislative space, so while that's occurring, it's very difficult to build a case to say, yep, let's invest in this, hundreds of millions of dollars, and have confidence in it. That's very hard to do, while the stance is still shifting.
00:58:00 Speaker 1: It's big on state government's radar at the moment. It is, yes. And they're having a lot of workshops with a lot of councils and industry people about what the options are, and feasible options are too. It's actually going to work and be practical. Councillor Jurisevic: There's certainly been a number of papers requesting input from our agencies. Speaker 5: It sounds like our hands are sort of tied right now. We're really sort of trying to figure out how the pieces of the puzzle are going to fall into place. And we're especially going to be looking at, for who's going to replace Wayne, because he's going to be a, or she will be a very influential person on that. Yes. Speaker 2: I mean, we've got, you know, we've got very qualified staff on board, but certainly the leader of that, you know, will bring a contemporary focus to it. But they have to have their ownership over this strategy, because it is, you know, likely, highly likely, that that strategy is going to recommend something fundamentally different for this child in terms of FOGO.
00:59:00 So that manager has to be on board with that. Councillor Lorentson: We had the opportunity of visiting the Sunshine Coast University, and we met with a very young, and from memory her title was, she was a strategy solutions officer. So I'm actually quite excited at how you're envisaging our new waste officer, because it is a strategic job, and it's a job where you've got to dream big. Councillor Jurisevic: I've been employed by Viola, and there was a contract that was managing... Viola, that's right. Managing that element of the university's operation. Speaker 2: It's an exciting opportunity. It is. I look forward to recruiting that opening. Speaker 6: One of the things about waste, you know, it doesn't have a high visibility in the community compared to parks or roads or things like that. People notice if your bin's not picked up, and that's probably as far as I can go. Most people would be surprised to learn that, you know,
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01:00:00 it's the biggest single line item in our budget by a country mile. It's $17 million out of our $100 million budget, compared to re-stealing roads, which is four and a half or things like that. So it's a really significant part of our operation, and it's probably some of the bigger... I call it strategy decisions we've got over the next couple of years. If we make the right ones, we'll set it up for the future. If we stop it up, then future generations will have to pay for it. So we shouldn't try and rush or be too worried about making a decision tomorrow or next week. We've got to get it right, which is why this strategy's going to give us that information to be able to do that. Speaker 2: And certainly for where we are at this point in time, this council manages waste very, very well. You know, within the context of the size of this Shire, it's well managed. Our environmental standards are incredibly high. Councillor Jurisevic: Even though we've had two leaches, they weren't leachate. They weren't managed well, I see. Speaker 1: Absolutely. They weren't leachate either. They were just exceedances of sediment in the water,
01:01:00 Councillor Jurisevic: which after late night rainfall... Speaker 1: Potentially. Speaker 2: And our diversion rates are very high. So we're not on a burning platform. We're in a good, solid space. But we must make some important decisions. And so working, you know, with somebody of the calibre of Mike Ritchie and his associates is fantastic, but it helps bring just that different lens and perspective to the next. Speaker 6: To put this in perspective, I know another council that has two years of landfill space left. So they need to make a decision about what they're going to do. And for them it's trucking it 100 kilometres or buying more land or whatever. So, you know, it's a really fundamental problem out there for us. So we're pretty lucky we're in a good position. But the question for us is what do we do next that's going to make a difference to the diversion Councillor Jurisevic: I don't ever want to see it built to the point where we get to that situation
01:02:00 because you'll never get another environmental approval. The biggest challenge in this area is to forget the term waste. As long as we continue to call it waste, once it becomes a resource and people realise there's a value to it and there's a process to go through to return that to become a resource, then will they become the problem of putting buried waste in the ground. Councillor Lorentson: Rachel, you referred to, before you and Joe were speaking about the release of leachate. Leachate. Leachate. And that's due to rainfall. Is there a concern that... Speaker 1: Sir, it wasn't leachate that was released. It wasn't? No. So we had two very different systems that operate out at the landfill. What we were referring to, they were elevations in sediment in the water that was... So we have a sediment basin on site. It takes any of our dirty water from the pad, treats it before it leaves site. After a large rainfall event, it's incredibly difficult to be able to make sure that
01:03:00 you've treated every single bit of that water that goes through. It is designed to a certain rainfall amount. If you exceed that rainfall amount, it's not expected to work 100%. So one of these was before I started, so I don't have full detail on it. But the second one, we weren't above by very much, but it just requires notification to the state that we've had an exceedance, letting them know. And then we follow up with follow-up monitoring to make sure that it has come back within compliance limits. There's been no adverse impacts. Councillor Lorentson: So is there a concern that we're entering El Niño or we are in El Niño? Is that a concern given that over the weekend we were concerned we were going to get rainfalls 100, 150 mils? Speaker 2: If we had this conversation two years ago, I would have been very concerned because we were having some issues managing the leachate. So we were worried about high rainfall events.
01:04:00 However, through discussions and arrangements with Unity Water in terms of our release of leachate and changes to the equipment that we have on site, we're in a much better position now than we were two years ago. Speaker 1: So we have monitoring that we do after each rainfall event and they let us give it with indicators whether or not there's been any breaches. And in terms of leachate, we've been within the mark every time. It's been managed really well. We're definitely at a pressure point with a lot of rainfall, but that just means we work with Unity Water to get that limit down quickly. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, that was my misreading. I was reading the bottom of the page and the word leachate came down. I was looking at the top of the page and the printout says it's been solid. Yeah. Councillor Wilkie: Yeah, solid. Rachel, we've been here five months. Yes. Can I compliment you on how I've watched your brief? Thank you. In that short period of time. Councillor Lorentson: Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: I'm happy to move the mic now. I'll second. Thank you.