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00:00:00 Councillor Wilkie: Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the General Committee meeting for 18 March 2019. We declare the meeting open. We begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which we meet today, the Kabi Kabi or Gubbi Gubbi people, and pay respects to their Elders past, present and emerging. We also note that our thoughts have been with our brothers and sisters across the Tasman who are grieving. For our guests, welcome. We just ask that you switch off your phones to silent or vibrate. And for our guests, it's just a reminder that today's forum is just an advisory committee only, which means that any motions passed here today only have the status of recommendations
00:01:00 which feed into the ordinary meeting on Thursday evening, where they may or may not be passed as motions and rules of the local government. Do we have any apologies? Speaker 8: No apologies. Councillor Wilkie: No apologies. Any presentations? Speaker 8: No. Councillor Wilkie: The first item is referred from the Planning and Environment Committee. It's a request to change an existing approval for multiple housing type 3 retirement, special needs, commercial business type 2, medical and wellbeing type 1 health, and reconfiguring a lot, one into two lots of grass to report in Ben Lexington Drive, Sunrise Beach. And it was referred due to the significance of the issue. Councillor Wellington? Mayor Wellington: Yeah, I'd like to begin with some scene setting questions, please, which may assist everyone in getting their heads around this. This is probably to either Kerry or Kim, whoever chooses to answer. The development, as I understand it, has a lawful and binding development
00:02:00 approval. And before us, what we have is an application for a minor change to that lawful approval. It's my understanding, and I ask you to confirm, that the only aspects of the development that we can determine here are those relating to the requested changes. In other words, we cannot use this change application as an application for a minor change to that application to re-prosecute aspects of the original development. We can only deal with the aspects that we are being asked to consider in terms of the change. Can you confirm that, please? Speaker 6: Yes, you've put it very well. We cannot revisit the full development. So we can really only look at the proposed changes. So yes, that's correct. And those rules are in the planning legislation. Mayor Wellington: So is it possible for you then to summarise the aspects that this changed application seeks to alter? I know they're here in the report, but for the sake of anyone watching the replay or watching this being streamed, it would be useful if you could just briefly
00:03:00 outline what the requested changes are, please. You might care to refer to page 18 and 19. That's correct. Speaker 2: The change application primarily relates to some minor modifications in terms of the number of villa units and the removal of the service apartment component of the application. The residential aged care facility previously had two respite beds within it. They're now to be removed. The 20 serviced apartments are being deleted and they've been replaced with 15 independent living apartments. So the number of independent living apartments is changing on the site of 54 to 69. And then the independent living units is actually decreasing from 54 to 53.
00:04:00 There are some other changes in relation to the appearance of the building and the number of floor plates of the development. There's also some changes to the building heights, changes to the staging of the development going from two to three stages, a reduction of all car spaces across the entire site, amendments to the internal network and resultant changes to landscaping. Mayor Wellington: Thank you. And one further question, if I may, through the Chair. So just to complete the argument, what would be the consequences, do you believe, if Council were to attempt to go beyond the requested changes and deal with aspects of the original application and attempt to make changes to them? My belief is that that would be likely to be subject to an appeal and that the appeal would have no chance of success. But furthermore, it would have an impact on Council standing in the eyes of the court if we were to operate outside
00:05:00 our legislative power on this issue. Speaker 6: I agree. I would expect the applicant to appeal. Any decision made by the Council would be taken by Council if we went outside the boundaries and the appeal would be struck out on technical grounds or they would win their appeal but they would win based on technical grounds for non-compliance with the planning legislation. Mayor Wellington: And that could be costly for us in terms of not just our reputation but also the expenses of a legal, unnecessary legal action. Speaker 6: Yeah, a significant cost there because Council has a good reputation in the court for assessing applications against the planning legislation. So it would impact on the reputation of the court. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. Mm-hmm. Okay. Councillor Jackson. Councillor Jackson: I've got a few questions. One is on page 14 there's a condition number 12. Can you explain whether that condition is the same as what was in the original approval or whether
00:06:00 that, which appears to look at vegetation management and glossy black cockatoo fruit trees or is that condition a new condition or in some way different? Can you explain it? Speaker 1: Yes, that's essentially that condition through the Chair, condition 11 or 12. 12. Yeah, is exactly the same apart from the last two sentences which state the establishment of the vegetation offsets must be completed prior to the commencement of the first stage, commencement of the use of the first stage. Councillor Jackson: So that's the use. That's the use statement. Speaker 1: That's the use statement, yes. Councillor Jackson: And what does the establishment of the vegetation offsets actually mean? Speaker 1: It basically means the program that's described in the dot points 1, 2, 3 are to be undertaken.
00:07:00 Establishment, we're going through the operational works permit at the moment, running concurrent to this. And that's where we're sorting out what the establishment actually means. But we're envisaging it to be planting, rehabilitation of the degraded lands and using the topsoil and the vegetative matrix from this site on the offset site. Councillor Jackson: Okay. And has any of the original approval planting offset been done so far? Speaker 1: Absolutely none. Councillor Jackson: None at all. So far that's to be done. Speaker 1: It's reliant on them achieving their operational works permit. Councillor Jackson: Right. I've got some questions that are not related to that one. With the increase from two to three bedrooms in some of the ILAs and ILUs, independent living
00:08:00 units and independent living apartments, does that change the footprint of the buildings and therefore the outdoor area? Speaker 2: Broadly speaking, the northern lot had a site coverage of 43% from the original approval. That has been maintained under the current application. The southern lot had a footprint of site cover of 32% and that's just slightly changing to 33%. It doesn't change the extent of vegetation removal that's required on this site. Some of the buildings previously had small studies within them. So the addition of a third bedroom may have marginally increased the footprint of the buildings. It's also noted that there's been change to the road network throughout the site. So that's had an increase in the opportunity for landscape areas as well. Councillor Jackson: Okay. Councillor Jurisevic: That was the question I was going to ask the grad, to where the third bedroom came from
00:09:00 in the area. That was the question I was going to ask the grad, to where the third bedroom came from in the area. To create a third bedroom and that explains that small increase in footprint as opposed to what I would think would have been a significant increase in the footprint. That's correct. Councillor Jackson: So I do have another question relating to vegetation. It says here that the vegetation, that the planting offsets have to occur before the actual onset of the construction, but then there will be three stages of construction. Will the vegetation all be removed all at once from those three stages? Do you think the removal of all sites will take place in the new stages and cause a potential for weeds? Or will there actually be stage one, stage two, stage three of the removal of vegetation? Speaker 1: It is planned that the vegetation removal will all occur at once so that the soil matrix and the vegetation cleared items can be re-established on the degraded sites of the Garowheen Nature Refuge.
00:10:00 Our compliance officer will be on there probably weekly checking for weeds and other issues associated with their lands. Councillor Jackson: And the glossy blacks, as I understand it, and you've written in your report, have a fidelity to specific casuarina trees. So they keep returning the same tree. As in this case, it seems that many of these casuarinas, a large number of casuarinas will be removed. Is there any known researched way of encouraging the glossy black cockatoos to transfer to some other trees? Speaker 1: These studies are a bit haphazard on their preference or their fidelity for certain individual trees.
00:11:00 And it seems to be, you know, it's coming to light that they may be because of high nutrient areas. So we're working with Blue Care to try and negotiate plantings within all our local little parks, road reserves, and the nature refuge. And that's just currently being negotiated through the operational work stage. They have also altered their aged care facility to accommodate some of the glossy black food trees in the northeastern portion of Lot C. So we'll be looking at returning some there and then some along the side boundaries of both blocks. The problem with the food trees is they're relatively short growing or a short lifespan.
00:12:00 And when you've got an aged care development like this, you know, I guess we'll operate in 80 years or 50 years plus, it's hard trying to plant for these pioneers. Pioneer species and their glossy black cockatoos. And there has been studies done showing that there are food trees throughout the region. Whether they're sufficient for the current population, the science is not there for that. Mayor Wellington: Can I add an observation about their behaviour, just personally, if you don't mind, Councillor Jackson? Because I've filmed them and photographed them in various locations in our Shire. And curiously, the glossy black cockatoos are not as flighty or as timid as, say, yellow-tailed black cockatoos. So all the ones that I've filmed or photographed have been in road reserve, including in urban areas. So having cash arena trees and street trees certainly works for this species in a way that it wouldn't work perhaps for other species. Councillor Jurisevic: An observation of that is that the Sunshine Beach State High School being nearby and the shops around it,
00:13:00 and the road Ben Leeson Drive through, there's a number of trees on either side of those. And they're well established within the school reserves. And in the rain, the shops and across the road. Mayor Wellington: And my experience is proximity of people doesn't bother them too much. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Jackson, to finish your question. Councillor Jackson: I actually have another one linked with what Connor talked about here. As I understand it from the report, Bluecare have responded to the concern by suggesting they will introduce a different type of stormwater device rather than a bioretention basin. And I noticed in the report it says, however, the requirement would be by council that if there was a testing regime required of that device, which, if it didn't work, would then require returning back to building a bioretention basin.
00:14:00 Is that what I understand? Speaker 1: There's, yeah, there's various elements to that. They're proposing a proprietary device, which is basically a series of filters. These proprietary devices have been tested elsewhere, but not with Noosa's rainfall. And so there's sort of doubts around whether and the size of the lot, whether they can actually cater for the size of the lot. So we've written those conditions to say that, you know, they've increased the maintenance, increased the amount of cartridges. And if all else fails, then come back to council and seek an agreement for either to put in a biobasin, or do some other contribution that increases the or betters the stormwater quality going into that system. So it doesn't necessarily have to be on site. It could be offsite that treats urban stormwater coming into the catchment. So considering that most of this catchment is already developed and contributing loads into the stormwater or into the waterways,
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00:15:00 we have the Girawain Stormwater Management Plan in 2006 that council's implementing, and we can then negotiate with Blue Care to help with that implementation. Okay. Councillor Jackson: Well, I guess I perhaps read, because on page 30, and perhaps Patrick can refer to it, on page 30 it says about these testing regimes that if necessary would require the replacement of the device with a bioretention basin. So is there then a condition that is actually on site? A broader condition that doesn't say it has to be a bioretention basin? Because Con is just saying there may be other options. Speaker 2: The conditions, what Con is referring to is actually specified within the conditions itself. It specifies the increase in the maintenance program or the upgrading of the system itself prior to seeking to either have offsets offsite or a bioretention basin.
00:16:00 Councillor Jackson: Okay. So that's all written in there. That's correct. All right. I've got another question, and that is, and I'm also responding to questions I've received from residents. There's a reference, of course, in the title to commercial business. My understanding as I read it is that's commercial business type two medical. As I understand it, there won't be anything commercial in this development that conflicts in anywhere, competes with the sunrise shocks. Am I understanding that correctly? Speaker 2: That is correct. Councillor Jackson: Okay. Another question is about the intersection. There's a reference to the full intersection instead of a turn lane coming off into Lexin. Ben Lexin. Ben Lexin. Can you explain what that means and what it means for the traffic? Speaker 2: The turn lane, it was originally proposed by the conditions to be a left-in panel lane.
00:17:00 It's a left-in and left-out only intersection. The full intersection will allow for full movement at the intersection, left-in and right-in and left-in and right-out. The benefit of that is that it will ... There'll be no need for traffic to go along the service road, pass the shops to the roundabout to come back and turn right. We'll actually be able to exit right from Grass Street Court. Councillor Jackson: So in terms of impact on the traffic on Ben Lexin. Ben Lexin. Speaker 2: Well, there'd be no net increase in traffic. The same amount of traffic will be leaving the site. Councillor Jackson: The same amount. It's just a different way. So it doesn't change anything. That's correct. Yeah. Has there been this traffic study done looking at the impact of the, I guess, a large number of new dwellings and cars, which will be ... I understand, I'm hearing feedback that there's a fair bit of traffic, especially around school times in that street. Speaker 2: It was assessed under the initial application, at which time it was considered that the surrounding road network was suitable to accommodate the traffic.
00:18:00 Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Jurisdict. Thank you. Councillor Jurisevic: On the subject of biobasins, I know ... I see on the plan there are plans for two biobasins, or retention slash bioretention basins. One southern for the, essentially, the residential area, and the other one for the residential facilities, I assume. And the second northern for the residential aged care, really. I know Council was looking at a biobasin in the area, as well, for stormwater that runs off from the rest of the residential areas there, that feeds into that creek that the glossies are very used, basically. Has there been any discussion or any opportunity to look at whether those two facilities could be combined, or ...? Speaker 1: Yes. I have a question. There has been internal discussions within Council, but not with Blue Care on that.
00:19:00 Is that an opportunity yet that we can explore? Councillor Jurisevic: Or is it too late? Have we gone too far down that path? Speaker 1: Yeah. And also, the topography would lend itself to ... Just because the aged care facility is downstream of the outlet from the stormwater ... Councillor Jurisevic: But the biobasins would likely be downstream of that outlet. I mean, is it an opportunity missed, or is it an opportunity missed? Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. But it's an internal thing that I know our stormwater expert has been looking at that, and she's been coordinating the response to that. Councillor Jurisevic: That's the question I raised, and I was wondering whether that had been explored or not. Yeah. Speaker 1: That's why I asked the question. Councillor Jurisevic: You mentioned the life of catarine, the trees. Connor, do we know what sort of ... I mean, given that the birds seem to come back to your trees, or I'd say ... I don't know.
00:20:00 You said more specifically the area, rather than the specific tree. If these trees are short-lived, is it ... I mean, what sort of lifespan do these trees have? Speaker 1: Oh, up to 30 years, depending on the ... Fair lifespan. Yeah. It's a fair lifespan. Yeah. So, it depends on the site conditions, too. So, like, where you've got them adjacent to a footpath, and issues like ... Yeah, you get all these sort of health and safety issues with ... Also, seeing the weather conditions ... The weather conditions. Throughout the years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, I've planted some at my place, which is, you know, really good conditions for them. They're not growing on sand, and they're going straight up right, whereas here, on these sort of old sand dunes, they're really depauper of the nutrients, and so they take ... they struggle to grow up really strong and healthy. But where they're located adjacent to stormwater outlets, where there's more nutrients, they seem to be more favoured. I must point out that I did speak to the consultant who did the survey on the Gossyback
00:21:00 food trees on the site, and he said that he was very conservative with his estimate. So, he's probably ... He said he's overestimated ... Very onside of caution. Yeah. Yeah. So, where they even had ... You know, they chewed on an aught or a cairn, and just dropped it. He counted that tree as being, you know, a sample, but not necessarily ... So, I put a high degree of confidence in his ones where he said that they've been high usage, which were approximately ... Would be a result in about 35 food trees over the two sites. Councillor Jurisevic: Now, as I understand it, there's been a fair amount of remediation works and seed bank redistribution and the like from the site with the original development proposal. Yeah. And now this change adds a number of significant trees, another eight ... Yeah. ... trees to be established. Yeah. So, I mean, at least we've got some good outcomes now. And the original land pass was significantly reduced, which can be ... Has the option to
00:22:00 be rehabilitated outside of the footprint of the development? Speaker 1: Yeah. Through the Geroene master planning process, Council ended up dedicating something like 140 hectares of land. 40 hectares of land to nature refuge back in 2007, I think, I recall. And as a result of that, the master planning process, and we've finally wound up with this much smaller parcels in lot six and lot nine for development of this community service zone. Councillor Jurisevic: As I understand, over the last five or so years that I've been on council, and maybe even previous to that, there's been a number of natural tree day projects and another significant rehabilitation project within the region undertaking that will help facilitate more trees, particularly glossy blackbird trees in the area. Speaker 1: Yes. That's right. Yeah. So, there's been an ongoing rehabilitation program going on through the Geroene Nature Refuge and also along with the bush care committees and groups.
00:23:00 They've been in ... Councillor Jurisevic: I know we did ... Yeah. Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that particular one, but the food trees would be part of that overall species mix. Councillor Jurisevic: And the only other question I've got is regarding to water and available water, I know the Glossy Blacks like feeding in that creek, but they also don't mind the puddles that are formed within the potholes and things within the school ground and the like. Are there any opportunities here for water? Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm addressing that through the operational works permit with the food care and making sure that their designs, their landscaping designs, accommodate Glossy Black Cockatoo
00:24:00 food trees and watering points. Councillor Wilkie: Just a clarifying question. The report states that every identified Glossy Black food tree that is removed has to be propagated and at a ratio of eight to one from the parent tree and replanted. But I'm unclear as to where the replanting is going to take place. Speaker 1: The replanting will take place around the Eastern Beaches locality at Sunrise and in our parks along our road reserves and probably the majority of it is going to actually occur in the Girraween Nature Refuge. Which will also be in the Geroene Nature Refuge. It will come right up to the southern end of the lots, the independent living unit area as well. So there's, yeah. Councillor Wilkie: So the coastal plain all through there contains feed trees that Glossy Blacks feed upon. Yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: Thanks. One more question. Based on what you said. Yeah. I understand within the area of Sunrise Park, particularly along Ben Letson Way, we've got a number of street plantings there that have been deemed as sort of inappropriate and need
00:25:00 to be removed over time. Is this an opportunity to look at more casual arenas and Glossy Blacks feed trees in particular Speaker 1: as street plantings for the future? It's a perfect opportunity to get it into our capital works project and keep bringing that through. Yeah. Absolutely. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Stockwell. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Cathy, if you could bring up the pre-clear map. I'd like to just inquire about some of the broader ecosystem conservation issues around this development because we have become a little bit fixated on one species, which is the plant that doesn't always end up in the right outcome, so I'd just like to look at the pre-clear extent of broad vegetation types and you'd see this site if we can get to the right site. You can see. Yeah. Can't see it. Speaker 1: No. Yeah.
00:26:00 So I can. Yeah. What are we looking at? A different colour than the one I had. That's the one. Mayor Wellington: That's the one. Yeah. Okay. That's the one. Okay. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: So you can see the big purple swathe through there, which is regional ecosystem 12, 2, 13. It's got an endangered biodiversity status and that's how much of it existed probably in the world. And it's, it has a, it's a dry heathland with shrubs, including Banksia amulia, Alacajarina litoralis, Santeria johnsoni, with the, with the Alacajarina obviously being the glossy back feed tree. But also I think it's important to recognise that in that ecosystem are threatened plant species. Potentially Alacajarina immuena, Acacia tenuata, Acacia barra, a few others, Prasophilum wallum, and Makata. That's how I would have come up with that. Prasophilum wallum. Yeah. And then there's a threat of species including Makata, Diori, Complimata.
00:27:00 My question is in the condition 12, 3, 3, these are the type of species that would be looking at translocation. So the ones that are very high is concentrated. Mayor Wellington: Can you just describe on this map please, Brian, where the development is occurring? Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Oh okay. So. Standing way up. Speaker 1: Just north of the radia. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: That little square there. There's the shot. OK. So at the moment there's 300 hectares of the original 400 hectare distribution left so obviously the largest clearing of that endangered re has occurred for community purposes yeah so the question is are those threatened plant species the one where curl33 specifically identifies that we're going to take extra care to try and relocate if that's suitable for species yeah so we've had a
00:28:00 Speaker 1: plant survey done by a notable botanist of the lot six and lot nine and they've turned up in the recent years saying that there's none of these rare and threatened on that particular site yeah they've found stuff just to the north outside in the national park but they haven't discovered them they have been there in the past so where they've gone they may have been affected by fire or just dry net so one of the characteristics of that regional ecosystem is it's adapted to differential fire regimes and when we're talking about pioneer species it's actually a change in fire region that changes the mix of plant species that's correct that's correct yeah so particularly when you get urban areas of budding and you know communities like this that do respond well to fire the absence of fire sort of tends to promote species that would normally not be their
00:29:00 Deputy Mayor Stockwell: um um obligate fire species so you end up having a dominance of alakaz arenas the glossy black food trees and which normally get wiped out when you're firing it so that was um that was another thing that i saw in the 12 vegetarian clearing offset option we had which is in condition 12. we noticed that this re that we're talking about is restricted to noosa and this is a subdominant ecosystem uh and straprock island in one other small area where it's been subject to sand mining so um when i i gave you a couple of research articles about rehabilitation um what are the key things and have we taken any of the content into this particular approval in terms of you know the offset is a action of last resort in terms of conservation what are the key lessons from that research in straprock island that we'll be able to
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00:30:00 Speaker 1: implement and is that something goes into this app this condition or is that in the operational workspace um i'll answer that backwards it is it is something to address in the operational work face phase and the casarinas and they found in the straprock island cases were rudderall species which were um species that were yeah very good work in the report i'm able to compete other species in terms of um the rehabilitation process and so you ended up having a stalled um ecosystem regeneration so there might be uh yeah allopathic conditions or something about the tree and the absence of fire is making it dominate the landscape in the rehabilitated site so there'll be um requirements that they may have to be thinned out where necessary but of course looking at the glossy black food tree qualities of it so um yeah it'll be it'll be an ongoing um assessment of the success of the rehabilitation site but i think it's quite important to get their soil matrix across to the site particularly um when we're looking at the um the soil profile of the receiving site it's not very um it's pretty depauperate in nutrients and also um i don't like the word offsets because you'll never offset this stuff it was um their term was used back in the sunny
00:31:00 coast days when it was um at the um their flavor of the month um offsets where we're actually undertaking here rehabilitations and of degraded lands using this as an opportunity to get good soil media across to those sites you did touch on it but one of the considerations on terms of whether to clear the whole lot or stayed was around that issue where in stradbroke they've identified one of the key elements to success was to relocate the fresh top soil with still the mycorrhizal and bacterial and all the seed sorts fresh and move that to the rehabilitation yeah so you're removing the live soil matrix which is basically in the first like 200 ml of um of the soil profile so you take it out across and it's put like putting a new skin on it's like you know basically a skin graft onto a degraded site now the other one while we're on the pre-clear so what that shows is it's a different ecosystem type to the rest most of the rest of sunrise beach which is a 1225
00:32:00 Deputy Mayor Stockwell: five um that one's also an odd concern ecosystem um and if we flick on to the the current remnant no not that one there's the other form of the other folder that one yep um that also according to the atlas of the australian of living australia includes our casual literale so that goes to that concept that that it's likely and we know they do already occur that that replanting is a street tree etc would be partly reported in the past as partly restoring a ecosystem type that was there previously yeah yeah um now on this map too the other uh key one is below the site and we've talked about the um bioretention basin so uh down the slope we have this unique regional ecosystem
00:33:00 12215 um it's a wetland system uh that has threatened wall and frogs crinula and the ground parrot which is also a threatened species um it the re notes that the east has been subject to disturbance extensively filled and modified by urban development in the south of the bioregion and the re the regional ecosystem is considered to be endangered in that area so this is one that counts previously um in the 80s we we actually did a deal with the state government to turn council land into national park and we've also added to that more in the nature refuge to try and protect that really unique system that you know in other areas has the uh the patent sendings which are very rare in southern hemisphere the question is the question is this is something that can happen during debate yeah i know yeah sorry i was going as interesting and conditions 64 65 and 81 which is a key thing is why i'm trying to get it is a conservation issue it is as important as
00:34:00 the glossy back ecosystem is the downstream wetlands you know perhaps more important from a conservation perspective in the downstream wetlands um so the question is do you consider what we've currently got in conditions 64 65 and 81 within the current proposal provide adequate protection to the downstream wetlands from urban impacts and downstream effects of disputes sources of pollution just say yes
00:35:00 Speaker 1: um it's yeah there'll be um controlling stormwater is always going to be an issue and we've got the best devices possible in an urban setting that we're trying to implement and so using current technology we've we're achieving the the best outcome if for development to occur in that area and so um yeah i incrementally there'll be um impacts from our stormwater system so the implementation of the gear away and stormwater master plan is um and plus these devices will still um keep that um regional ecosystem functioning thank you and so kerry doesn't feel Deputy Mayor Stockwell: right through you mr chair yes um in looking to the proposal conditions is it is it relevant to consider more specific condition with a proof with this approval uh to enhance the focus on pedestrian and cycling safety safety of pedestrians and cycling movements particularly being around a school area and have you got any suggestions on how that could occur um so the development has been previously conditioned to have a construction management plan in place
00:36:00 Speaker 6: and they're required to submit a primary one to us for a review with the operational work the final contractor though finalizes the construction plan so through that plan the expectation would be that they manage traffic and pedestrian movement around the site to make it safe and i have drafted some further changes for you to be quite specific around that so that that would be condition 57 yeah so there's quite a lot of um movement in that area with children with the schools in the area so it is important that we uh that they come up with a plan to keep them safe during construction because there will be a lot of movement in and out of the site so councillors that one only circulated just because of me because we'll move that in the moment
00:37:00 Councillor Jackson: yeah um counselor jackson i'd like to ask a question about another species called human beings it's relating to the removal of 20 service departments and replacing it with independent living apartments i i started the housing needs assessment which council engaged for the purpose of the new supply and on page 77 of our housing needs assessment it says the number of home care places at the sunshine coast aged care planning region level is below the targets established by the australian government and this may force some local residents to move into residential aged care as in rac which is the aged care place before they would otherwise need to now in this report there's an indication that there's no need for 15 or 20
00:38:00 service departments where people get meals and have their livings changed and things and the reason is that they can get home care and that therefore we can make it all into service non-service departments and they can get home care um so i'm not sure this may or may not be a council matter this may be a federal government matter but this kind of certification but you know it would appear that there may be an issue um by reducing the number of service departments for people who aren't quite up to the full Speaker 2: self-care suite okay um page 27 of the report addresses yield and density and the part of that refers to the removal of the service departments the advice that we've received is that previously their model bluecares model was to provide a separate facility or a separate area where the service departments would be located their model has now changed so that it enables the provision of in-home care
00:39:00 across the entire site so essentially all of the villa units and door apartments now have the capacity for that in-home care and the position of blue care is that actually enables so couples to stay together in home for a longer period of time before they actually move into a residential aged care facility so essentially that service has been provided to more more persons within across the site sure i understand that although i think that service isn't going is provided only through Councillor Jackson: aged care my aged care system and you get a cat assessment and then you may or may not succeed in obtaining home care that's what i'm actually saying because it's dependent on the full home care service being provided across the sunshine coast and whether it's available it's not localized okay i'm not familiar with the actual different levels of certification or anything that's required um my understanding was it was a bit of something that blue can would be providing
00:40:00 Speaker 2: well they're one of the service providers so we don't really have to question i suppose also is this something council has a say in what the actual definition of the um residential aged care and the retirement village doesn't require that different service departments be provided it's something that can be provided within the definition councillors with your indulgence we have a proposed motion before us i'm happy to move there is one other site amendment and Deputy Mayor Stockwell: that's to adding the 13 26 13 which has a few councillors already mentioned that uh specifying that the original glossy back food trees on each side of the grass we caught roads um that specifying that these trees must be propagated by a sequence so i'm happy to move that uh in other ways as was recommended by staff i'll second it and seconded councillor glasgow councillor stocker's victory
00:41:00 to it yeah i will speak to it um it's not an emotion that i i like moving um quite frankly if um we were sitting in here in 2004 i'd be standing up waving my arms and yelling about conservation and refusing development um but we're not in that case we have to realize that this land has been committed for his own community purposes that that council back in 2004 made the difficult decision decision to balance conservation outcomes by protecting the vast majority of the site with community outcomes in terms of what still is an issue is the provision of aged care facilities so in that being said this proposed minor change marginally improves the outcomes that are capable
00:42:00 and i think you know that emotion in front of us achieves the best possible outcome considering the previous commitment i think it's great that the community has rallied to try and raise attention of the plight of the glossy back but in this case um council as the mayor's earlier questions pointed out council is banned by legislation to consider only those changes that any motion to refuse would likely go to the appeal and have a very very high chance of council losing and incurring both our own costs and the cost of the applicants considering the situation so it's not an option in front of us the only option is to approve and to approve with reasonable and relevant conditions Councillor Wilkie: thank you councillor stopper councillor pardon then councillor jackson yeah um councillors i was Councillor Pardon: part of that council back then that set aside this piece of land for this particular purpose
00:43:00 the but also taken into consideration as was said before by connor i think there was some over 100 acres set aside for conservation purposes that whole strip behind there including that 140 acres was designated for community purposes so we changed that through the master plan the guru master plan to protect absolutely most of that particular site councilors prior to that go back further other councils they they had it designated and we changed designated to protect most of that area if you look at the big picture any creek road when we constructed it we actually moved that road south to protect 17 glossy black trees at the time they're on the left-hand side of any
00:44:00 creek as you're going across towards the bridge back from the bridge so um we've got a long history here council previous and this one of protection with regards to the glossy black but i concur with the councilor stock drop we should never just be talking about one species the glossy black or the koala bear for that example which isn't a bear but i call him koala bear because he's cute and cuddly so one species uh when you designate a big area as we did in the master plan for protection that included a lot of species that run through not only vegetation but the little mammals etc that travel through that area um also uh around um why any creek went south a lot of that area
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00:45:00 uh let's face it there's a sewage treatment plant there call it what you will in the creek running in the burgess creek feeding in there we talk about contaminants etc well you know that's not ideal we know we strip out through your macrophytes etc a lot of those contaminants and it does a pretty good job but the human race being what it is as councilor stockwell said if you had your day over you might protect it all people 7.7 billion on it and rising daily um these type of facilities uh look at our demographic in noosa shire as councillor jackson alluded to the number of beds etc that that the federal government's appointed have we got enough well they say we're still 150 or 200 short who knows and going forward in the future home home-based care that's going to be a big deal i mean we cannot predict the future look
00:46:00 at the way um things are changing changing in home care these sort of homes might end up heaping hotels and motels one day who knows because the oldies will all be at home or be a different model but the model we got is the model we got before us today so i support this motion yes we take all care with regards to rehabilitation when we did any creek built that road it won an award because uh and conrad remember that with regards to um taking that overburden and then replanting the only problem is now uh it it's in another report here today where you you replant to road edges and it looks good
00:47:00 but you don't see the animals when they come out it's a bit of a catch-22 but um for the people the people who are going to use this facility the elderly within our Shire we need these facilities so i support the motion thank you Councillor Jackson: thank you councillor councillor jackson actually i have a question through the chair of councillor stockwell um it's really councillor that there is a section of blue changes and i am a little bit confused about what's different in the blue changes compared to what was originally there the last clause so all the rest are the same that's i'm right in my Deputy Mayor Stockwell: yes yes the last part just about specifying that the street trees should be the glossy black feed tree and as mentioned my view is we should make that a fairly standard requirement around someone Councillor Jackson: else oh i see okay maybe i'm going to have to also go to the other condition no that's not it
00:48:00 it's the other one i'm sorry 57 yeah i apologize Deputy Mayor Stockwell: The key concern was expressing more clearly the second item 1, it's about making sure the construction management plan maintains, ensures that we achieve the maintenance of safe pedestrian access, including safe passage for children attending the event. Councillor Wilkie: Now a question on that to Kerry. My understanding is the original conditions would ensure that. Is this just making this more explicit? Speaker 6: That's right. The original condition 57 was fairly basic and it's just expanded on it to make it more specific.
00:49:00 So it goes all the way down to F. So are there a lot of changes? Is that all new all the way down to F? Condition 57 has been reworded in its entirety to include... All the points in the construction management plan that it should cover. It was previously quite a general condition. Councillor Wilkie: But this is what would be involved in implementing condition 57? That's right. And this is the detail you'd go to in the management plan with the contractor? Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just clearly setting out all the detail that we would expect in that construction management plan. Mayor Wellington: So, Mr Chair, there is no 57 in the original recommendation that came to the Planning and Environment Committee. And there is no... There is no item 26 in the recommendation that came to the Environment Committee. So with that blue section you just went past, Cathy, if you could go back to it. Councillor Wilkie: Would that be the original approval? Speaker 6: The original approvals. They weren't previously recommended to be amended. Speaker 8: So what they've done is...
00:50:00 Mayor Wellington: So I raise this because Councillor Jackson's query is quite fair. That is, when we asked what has been changed to item 26. In fact, we haven't seen item 26. So it's all new to us. Now, there might be a change. However, the councillors have not been presented with this before this morning. Councillor Wilkie: So what can you tell us about the original conditions? Speaker 6: Certainly, condition 26, only 26.13 has been added. Nothing else has changed in that regard. Okay. Councillor Wilkie: So the original condition 26 contained all those items. That's right. Up to 12. 26.13 is the only change. It's the only change. Speaker 8: What about the... Can I suggest you read that out? Because people might be watching at home. You won't see that on the screen as well. Councillor Jurisevic: Can I suggest it could also be in red as opposed to blue? No. Okay. That's just something that's happening. Councillor Wilkie: The addition to condition 26 reads, The provision of glossy black food trees on each side of the Grass Tree Court Road Reserve planted at regular 15 metre intervals.
00:51:00 The trees must be propagated by seed from existing glossy black food trees within the development site. Councillor Jurisevic: Can I ask a question of Connor in regard to that position? Speaker 1: How long would it take to establish new trees from seed from the site? To establish them to a point where they become food trees? I'd be saying four to five years. Councillor Jurisevic: How about to establish them to a size where they could be street planted? Maybe two years in a nursery? It's unlikely we'd see anything there in the way of street trees for a couple of years. Although development would probably take a couple of years anyway, wouldn't it? Yeah. So it's likely at the conclusion of development they'd be ready to establish them to come. Yeah. Speaker 1: They're being propagated at the moment. Councillor Jurisevic: That's all right. That's good. Thank you. Mayor Wellington: Mr Chair, another question if I may. I think for the sake of clarity it needs to be understood why it is that we're actually
00:52:00 now being presented with conditions from the original approval that is being altered given that at the outset it was stated that we couldn't go to the original conditions and change them. We could only deal with the matters in the change application. So perhaps staff might care to explain that. Yeah. Councillor Wilkie: Why are staff comfortable with these changes? Speaker 6: I consider they're quite minor. They were required previously to have street trees and now we're just specifying the type of trees. I think that's quite minor. I don't expect the answer to that. I don't expect the applicant to accept that. Speaker 8: And I assume that it would be related to what's covered by their application for amendment, that the changes in that particular area would affect the trees? No. Speaker 6: No, I can't say that because it's about street trees. So it's not directly related to the changes. I agree with you. But I expect that it's quite minor and that the applicant will accept that. Councillor Jackson: So even though you earlier said, and it was very clear, that we could only deal with the matters that are before us, that are new in the application, we are now addressing
00:53:00 things in the old approval and changing them. Speaker 6: Yes, we are. Yeah. We aren't responding to the change. That's correct. Councillor Wilkie: I agree with that. Is that problematic from a staff's perspective, the nature of these changes? Speaker 6: I, as I've said, I expect the applicant to accept it because it's fairly minor in nature. And that's why I don't think it's an issue. Councillor Jackson: Can these things be part of the process? Given what they appear to be is details. Councillor Jurisevic: Councillor Jackson is about to ask one more question. Councillor Jackson: It's a question. Councillor Jurisevic: Yes, go ahead. It's a question I was about to ask. Go ahead. Councillor Jackson: Can these things be, I don't know if it is, can these things rather be in the operational works details rather than in the conditions for this, which seems to be rather at odds with the original application? Mayor Wellington: Yes. Speaker 6: They could. That's right. They could. Mayor Wellington: And is the same hold true for 57 as it does for 26? That could be dealt with through the operational works? Speaker 6: 57. There was already required to have a construction management plan.
00:54:00 And I've simply just detailed out the expectations of that construction management plan. So the reality is nothing's changing. That's everything we would have expected anyway. Councillor Jurisevic: So the question then that relates to what Councillor Wellington has raised and Councillor Jackson raised, rather than being in here and trying to change the original conditions, wouldn't we be better off putting it in place? So we're not being seen to try and change the original conditions of the application. Speaker 6: Perhaps if I can suggest another way, if officers check with the applicant between now and Thursday to see if they're happy with those changes. Because I would prefer them to be in the material change of use because that's really the head of power for that work. Councillor Pardon: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask, between now and Thursday night officers could check if that's fine. These pretty much stay the same. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: I'll move a deferment as an amendment. Councillor Jackson: I'll second that. Councillor Wilkie: Okay, Councillor Wellington moves back.
00:55:00 Speaker 8: That's a procedural motion. Procedural motion to defer. Yep. Procedural motion to move. Moved by Councillor Wellington to defer. Seconded by Councillor Jackson. For consideration of the ordinary meeting on... Mayor Wellington: Following discussions. Following discussions with the applicant. Councillor Wilkie: Okay. Mayor Wellington: Need a seconder for that? Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Jackson is a seconder. Just to speak to it, Councillor Wellington. Mayor Wellington: Only briefly. I mean, I think that we have to be very careful how we tread in terms of the original development approval. I accept that Councillor Stockwell is attempting to improve the opportunities that arise from the original approval. However, we shouldn't pretend that we can simply go there and make changes no matter what the outcome. This gives the staff an opportunity to discuss with the applicant whether they're happy for us to make these changes to the original approval. It still worries me as a precedent, so we'll consider it on Thursday night.
00:56:00 I'm still not happy with the idea of going and changing the... Whether we think they will like it, even if they do, I still have a problem with it. I'll think about that between now and Thursday. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Councillor Stockwell. I'm happy for the deferral, but I disagree with the logic of the Mayor. When we consider modified applications, we consider conditioning the new development in light of our current thinking. There is nothing unusual about updating conditions to reflect a higher standard that exists at the time. So while these refer more generally to the whole development, they are consideration of the modified plans and they reflect the current thinking. Well, at least of me. In terms of what is a reasonable expectation of the developer, there is nothing to say that they are purely triggered by the amendments, but they are a very simple reflection that
00:57:00 as part of the change, we have considered current community opinion and a desire to more specifically outline what is required in terms of both operational works and contract plans. So I don't think the argument that it doesn't relate specifically to the change has merit. Councillor Jackson. Councillor Jackson: Yeah, I'm happy to have the deferral. One reason is that I actually don't feel I have had enough time to read those changes, and so therefore it makes it a bit difficult to vote one way or the other. But I'm also a bit concerned, and in this particular case especially, where many residents have expressed concerns about quite a few aspects of the approval... of the original approval, and certainly the messaging that has been coming from Council has been that we can't change the original approval, and therefore we are stuck with it, and that we have to only address the thing that's before us, which is a minor change
00:58:00 of views. And so my... I have a concern that it's almost as if what's good for the Gander isn't good for the Boose or whatever. Why is it that Council can suddenly say, well, we want to change some of these things? And we've got to make sure that we're not making things inappropriate without taking into consideration all the things that people are saying. They'd like to just be changed. So I think this requires some thought. Councillor Pardon: Councillor Powell. Yeah, I'll support the deferral. But I agree with Councillor Stockwell. I'd be amazed if the developer had objections with what's proposed in that motion. The pretty standard conditions with regards to operational works. I just... I don't think that's the case. Yeah. I don't think it would be a problem. But I'll support it. Councillor Jurisevic: But I'll support the deferral. But as I request the staff to, it looks like they could have been covered in the operational works, and we could have covered them either way.
00:59:00 I mean, I'm happy for the Development Centre for those changes to look at it in that way. But either way, we could have got the changes across the line. They do refer to traffic management, which is one of the concerns raised by the community with regard to around the developments. I'm glad to see that the traffic management modelling has been reinvestigated, and some more stringent measures there to be implemented to look after the concerns of the community that have been raised already. And the other is a minor change with regard to the nature of the street trees, which is in keeping with what the developer's already doing, and that is to try and retain the velocity black-cock to feed trees within the region, which just facilitates that. So I don't see there being any issue either way. Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: I'm going to support the deferral motion. I appreciate what Councillor Stockwell is doing, which is responding to the enormous community interest and sensitivity about works going on on this site, seeking to expand upon and give more detail and reassurance to those interested about what these conditions
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01:00:00 actually mean. I accept the staff's advice that these changes are minor and merely expanding upon what would be detailed in contractual arrangements. I also think the Mayor's approach, a precautionary one, is also wise. And for that reason, I'll support the motion. Councillor Glasgow, would you wish to speak? Councillor Glasgow: No, it's all been said. The deferral motion is a good way to attack this, and we'll have the staff come back to talking about the things during Thursday, and I think we'll get a really good non-ad-hoc decision on Thursday night. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Wellington, do you wish to close? Mayor Wellington: Yeah, sure. Councillor Stockwell. Councillor Stockwell says there's nothing unusual in updating conditions, and that's true in many circumstances. However, this is an unusual circumstance. And that is because we're dealing with a very large site, a significant development with a long history.
01:01:00 And furthermore, we are under some scrutiny by sectors of our community in terms of how we handle this. I, therefore, accept that the proposed changes to the original conditions that are being suggested are very minor in nature. However, I would like to say that this is an unusual situation. So, as always, there are precedents at work. Every planning decision we make has ramifications in terms of a precedent. And my issue is not with the content of the changes, but rather with the messaging that we send if we're going to go back and start tinkering with the original development application. So I'm looking forward to further information from the staff between now and Thursday about incorporating these changes in the operational work. So hopefully we don't have to go and tinker with the original development application conditions. And therefore, we can stick to our intended principles, and that is to only deal with the changes being requested. Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: I put the motion. Those in favour? Against? Motion is carried. Mr Chief, could I just ask you to bear with me two seconds? I'm just going to grab a charger out of the office.
01:02:00 Yes. Mayor Wellington: You're running out of steam, mate. I'm running out of steam. Councillor Jurisevic: I will if we keep going. At the length that we're going. Mayor Wellington: It's OK to prepare. Speaker 8: OK. Councillor Wilkie: The next item is the Item 2, Request for Negotiated Decision Notice for Visitor Accommodation Type 4 Convention, 122 Bairdsett, 14-16 Mary Street, Noosaville. Thank you, Connor, and thank you, Patrick. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thanks very much. Speaker 6: Thank you, Melanie. Councillor Wilkie: Reason for a Further Report. Speaker 8: Kerry's got an update too. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you, Kerry. Speaker 6: The applicant in discussing this report and possible change condition has asked that they would like to revisit two other conditions of the approval between now and Thursday, which are noise related conditions.
01:03:00 So, they would like to re-visit both of those conditions. They'd like some more discussions around the noise conditions before this is finalised. If they were to accept the noise mitigating device for the speakers outside, the noise limiting device, they feel it's appropriate to look at the other monitoring, noise monitoring conditions that are conditions of approval, so they'd like some discussion on that. They've asked that council defer it between now and the ordinary meeting. Mayor Wellington: So the discussion will happen between staff and the applicant. Yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: I was going to suggest a deferral. Councillor Wilkie: Okay. Well, Councillor Glasgow has moved that the item be deferred to the ordinary meeting, seconded by Councillor Jurisevic. I wish to speak to it, Jess. Councillor Glasgow: Yeah, this is a really important decision in my view. Like Brian, I just learned before, Brian talked about how he would put his arms up in 2004, I think you said, Brian? About the last... Waving around. Waving around and refused the application because... But... But, you know, things are different and nowadays this is stated exactly that the use of this
01:04:00 land that you talked about in Ben Lexen and the same goes for our kids' accommodation on Mary Street. It is in a town plan for short-term accommodation. It is the only beds that's been built since Peppers, quite a long time ago. And I think another pro motion is it would be great to source staff recommendations on Thursday. So I fully support it. Councillor Wilkie: Okay. Thank you. Any other councillors? Any other councillors wish to speak to the deferral motion? Just to close? No. Those in favour? Against? Motion's carried. Thank you, carried. The councillors, with your indulgence, we would like to move to the Noosa Biosphere Reserve Foundation annual report. We have a guest in the audience, in the gallery. That is the author of the annual report. That's the chairman, Dick Barnes, and he's offered to be kind enough to speak to his report. Under 12.1 of our standing orders, we can have a non-staff member attend and answer questions.
01:05:00 So Dick, we invite you to join us. Dick, I'd like to formally thank you for making yourself available. Thank you. To be here today to answer our questions and speak to your report. Speaker 8: Yeah. Councillor Wilkie: Much appreciated. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. Speaker 4: Thank you very much for your time today, and I hope you have a good rest of your day.
01:06:00 So, clearly we tried to just give a very quick summary of what was going on and it was decided it was pretty thin and many questions were asked and we got out of that meeting last year a checklist of questions that have been posed, particularly by Councillor Jackson, and we actually wrote responses to that. So, I'm hoping that this report clearly incorporates any questions of that. With that thought in mind, we wrote it at three levels. So, there's, if you just want to know a quick summary of what's going on, it's in the Chairman's report. If you want a bigger, broader view, then read the report itself. And if you then really want to dig into a specific issue, there's quite extensive appendices to this. From my point of view, is this okay if I take a few minutes like that? Yes. Please. Okay. We're very pleased to submit our new report. Like always, we've had a, not necessarily like always, but we've had a clean report from the auditor. As I've mentioned before, the financials are pretty well in order. The fiscal accounts report against certain accounting standards for not-for-profit organisations. The biggest issue of that is when you receive a
01:07:00 as we do, some money from council, which is committed to a program, you can only count that as income when it's actually paid out. So, you get a whole process of a situation where you keep an asset as the cash or whatever you've got, and you have a matching liability that actually offsets that. That makes the balance sheet and P&L a very complicated piece of information. In order to help us manage the organisation, and hopefully yourself, we have to do a lot of work. We have to do a lot of work. We have to do a lot of work. We have to do a lot of work. We have to do a We have a separate set of management accounts, which are on a cash basis. So, they actually show what happened when, and so on. And I think I would, if anybody wants to raise queries, I would raise that as probably the better vehicle than the fiscal accounts. But obviously, we have to have the fiscal accounts, and we have to have them audited and so on.
01:08:00 When we first, when I first became chairman, we implemented a back-to-basics program. We had, we actually had 15, and then council added two more. And that programme really we feel is finished now. I've included the checklist in here and I've said in our report that this is now in our thinking, in our psyche. Clearly the main, and I'm sorry that's shown in Appendix E if that's necessary, Appendix A and B are the financials and the management accounts. Obviously the major thing of 2017-18 was undoubtedly the second grants round. We managed in a relatively short space of time to institute another grants round. It was very successful, we had $330,000 to spend, we decided to break it into two levels, small projects less than $20,000 and projects over $20,000.
01:09:00 The idea being that a big amount of money would be spent on small projects, small projects less than $20,000 and projects over $20,000. I think that is a real reflection of the community's interest in what we're doing and now we're in a new phase of taking more of an initiative ourselves rather than just calling for inputs. It does mean though that the other 43, it's not right is it, 45, the other 45 are a real source of what other people in the community would like to see done so I think that's been very useful. Perhaps we don't stress enough how much leverage Council gets from what we do. Basically, we basically level things three to one, which means that for every $100 Council provides to us we get work done to the tune of $300,000.
01:10:00 And roughly speaking, probably of that difference, the two to one, probably a third is cash and two thirds is actually in-kind effort. And I think that's really important. I think that's very interesting because it really shows the leverage that we've been able to achieve. So in balance then, we've been running projects worth $2.9 million if you take the two grant programmes, which Council has provided $950,000. And we would argue that's quite an exceptional leverage. Of the balance, as I said, $600,000 come from cash provided and $1.35 million from in-kind. The in-kind activity is very important to point out because, basically, that's community involvement. And it's the people that are running projects and managing them and so on that are putting their time in.
01:11:00 So I think that's good. We were very careful that the decision-making process on the grants was independent. And certainly Michael Gloucester and I have particular links to organisations that were going to submit things. So we stepped completely aside. And we're very grateful for four of the directors, chaired by Claire Cartwright, with Frank Wilkie. Karen Hussey and David Deak spent a lot of time and effort, much more time and effort than was expected, going through the 54 reports and agonising over which ones to support. I've made the point here that we have tried to reflect the checklist that came out of discussions with Councillor Jackson in particular and the CEO. During this year, Michael Gloucester retired from the board in May. And we were grateful for his input, for his strategic input. We were very lucky to have Scott Williams, a past chair, stand in as a casual director until we could get organised. Because basically, we wanted to increase the number from six to eight.
01:12:00 Our approach is that members of the board take responsibility for an area. So rather than just all debating everything, we actually can allocate areas to individuals. And that's really meant we can cover a lot more ground than we would otherwise. We also make use of our members. And they all came to our significant portion, came to our AGM, looking back at 2016-17. And they are a source of expertise and so on that we use from time to time. So very pleased for that. Obviously, towards the end of 2017-18, a large amount of time was spent in discussion with this table about what would be appropriate for the new funding report. Funding review, which came up for agreement. It was up for review. It was clear that the council itself has responsibility to manage the biosphere.
01:13:00 You have so many of the levers and so on. And our role in MBRF is to supplement that with big ideas and issues that can really change things. And coming out of that, there was an emphasis that we should take more on ourselves. Rather than just getting grants coming in, we should actually take more time to actually research things and come up with ideas. And I'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute. Let me just make a quick point here then. We have developed a methodology which was best shown by Bring Back the Fish, where we started off with an initial hypothesis. We then very vigorously challenged that hypothesis with scientific bodies and so on. And out of that comes a real hypothesis. In the case of Bring Back the Fish, there was a concern about the level of fish in the river. The going in position was we needed to do more about seagrass and mangroves.
01:14:00 And the coming out position of the scientific group was we need to do more about river bed structure and the sediment that's coming out of Kin Kin. So that really guided our situation. And just to follow that on, having then got a sound robust project and hypothesis, we then go on to do a pilot. Because if it's a big idea, it probably needs to be piloted. And obviously, we'd be doing that with oyster reefs in particular. And then we look about how to implement that. And that's something Council's already discussing about the future implementation of that. That methodology is what we've adopted now. And we are busy workshopping all the potential ideas, hypotheses, and to see which are the big ones that we really feel should be pursued, taking use of things like discussions with community groups and the past before things and so on. We're particularly grateful for Council to continue to support our operational funding.
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01:15:00 It's what makes us actually really able to get the leverage that we've talked about and leverage the volunteer directors to really get the best out of them. The original budget was sort of, to fund a single executive. And we found that was difficult and not very appropriate. And what we do now is we buy small amounts of an expert for part of their time. And we usually find that the experts are prepared to do it at sort of mate's rate because of what we're doing. So it's a very effective way. We've probably got five consultants that we use from time to time. The other thing about the operational funding is we take a longer term view than one year. And when we can see that actually a big event's going to happen, then obviously we try and save one year to supplement the next. And one of the big things we now have is this process of workshopping and researching our regional ideas. And so that's where we see quite a lot of money going in the next year or so.
01:16:00 We're obviously very much aware of the need to raise funds. Fortunately we have some new directors of board now that have specific experience in that, proving very valuable. We're having some bigger talks. We haven't particularly in the past plugged into grant programmes or whatever from other sources, although some of the 600,000 is from other sources like the Thomas Foundation and so on. But we're doing a lot more of fundraising from all sources, from government, local, strategic, sorry, state and federal. And I was at a conference with the other Australian biospheres last week. It was very effective. It was the first time we got together as a group to cross-feed ideas and so on. And a lot of that is about how we can make a better position known to government and so on. So there's a bit of a biosphere revival, if you like. We were described as a cabal by UNESCO. Councillor Jurisevic: I was supposed to say, you're not out there as Ireland's direction working.
01:17:00 Sorry? It's good to see you're not out there as Ireland's direction coming together to try and further the bias. Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 4: It was absolutely, Frank came for some of it, and it was absolutely terrific to hear each of the biospheres talk about what they're doing and hear lots of ideas about how we could really build on that. Councillor Wilkie: And if I may, one of the things for me that came out of that was that it was very clear there was no one model suits all. Right. And the funding arrangements are entirely different across the board. Yeah. Great Sandy was saving $2.4 million a year for the first few years. Yeah. And one in Canada was saving a large sum of $12.4 million. Speaker 4: $12.4 million, yes. Anyway, we don't have quite those aspirations of government. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Down on a shoestring. Yeah. If that's a budget pitch, I'd reconsider. Speaker 4: Oh, the other thing that was particularly interesting was the indigenous presence.
01:18:00 There was a lot of indigenous activities by the bachelor group at the meeting. But interestingly, one of the things that did happen was that in the very last closing ceremony was some joint dancing between the bachelor group and the Kabi Kabi. And so they were showing that it was a more bigger organization. So not only if you like where the basket is getting together, the indigenous groups are getting together. And they were all very pleased. I mean, Lyndon Davis, he did the dance. He led the dancing from the Kabi Kabi. And he was saying it was the first time that actually they'd done anything like that together. So it brought a lot of really, really good things. Speaker 3: In 17, 18, we changed. Speaker 4: Some of the policies of the past were really to keep our head down. And we've changed dramatically to try and be out there as often as we can and communicate good things of what we're doing. And the grants project.
01:19:00 And we've done a lot of that this year. We piloted the services a small amount of time with Alison Cooper, who's a very good local communications expert. And she's helping us a lot with that. So I think in summary, 2017 has been a challenging year. But I think we can show now that we've significantly raised our game. And obviously, I'd like to thank you very much for the ability to discuss things with you and to report quarterly and so on. And I can only apologize for the lateness in this report. Thank you. Thank you, Dick. Councillor Wellington. Mayor Wellington: Yeah, I'm more than happy for questions, et cetera. I'd like to move a slightly different wording to the recommended on the screen. And that is to add at the end, Cathy, and thank the volunteer board members of NDRF for their efforts. Councillor Wilkie: Seconded by Councillor Pardon.
01:20:00 Mayor Wellington: Well, there might be questions first. Okay. I'll get underway then. Look, it's often easy to forget that the NDRF board are well-meaning citizens with the goodwill of the Noosa Shire in their hearts. What's more, they're all volunteers. I want to particularly acknowledge that I know that Dick had a difficult year with health issues over the last, well, 18 months to two years, really. But he's been unwavering in his commitment to the NDRF. Dick mentioned something that's in the report, and it's worth noting here, and that is that it's agreed that Noosa Shire Council are responsible for the overall management of the Biosphere and the Man in the Biosphere UNESCO program. The majority of the leaders are under council control. And the role of NDRF has always been to bring forward big ideas and to get them implemented. And I'd just like to congratulate the board on their efforts thus far. And we look forward to more greatness emanating from NDRF.
01:21:00 Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. Councillor Wharton. Councillor Wharton. Councillor Pardon: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Interesting, Dick. I thought with your crook foot you wouldn't be able to join in that dancing. And I was just wondering at a conference in Maryborough with regards to, and I know I'm a bit off track here, Mr. Chairman, with regards to motions, et cetera, before us, but Greg Hunt, who we worked with way back to become a biosphere or to get that designation way back, there was some federal funding back then because, well, Hunt actually, Morning Peninsula, he was the member. Also, he was the environment minister and he lived in a biosphere on Morning Peninsula. Well, he still does, I guess. So, yeah, I'll just throw that out there. I have no idea if there's any opportunities there. Yeah.
01:22:00 Speaker 4: Firstly, I should point out that the executive officer of Western Port Biosphere is also called Greg Hunt. So, when you see some of... No, you're absolutely right. I mean, that's the history. But there is... When you see some of the latest reports, you'll find his name is mentioned and it's a different Greg Hunt. Councillor Pardon: Oh, right. Speaker 4: Yes. I think, in reality, all of the biosphere's presence have the same issue, which is operational funding is very hard to find. Grants and projects, much easier to interest philanthropists and so on and on. And I think, without exception, they all have grants from councils and supporting things to run their operation. Okay. Councillor Pardon: Well, I think there's only one councilor speaking. With regards to funding, I think your success passed and then going forward, I'm confident of your success. Very smart people, very smart volunteers. I think you've done a great job. So, why wouldn't we go forward and continue, not only the projects you're doing, but opportunities
01:23:00 for new projects. And that blew me away when you had about 54 applications. That's a tremendous result for the community and the interest. And I think that'll just grow over time. I think everyone's... Well, nearly everyone's laid down their swords and battle axes and we can get all the positive projects etc, going forward. It's interesting in Bring Back the Fish, and you referred to that funding agreement of, I don't know, I don't have a page, it's under six on the report here. But anyway, when you talked about the river structure, fish, et cetera, I think the scientists who say, you know, it's mainly to do with turbidity of the water or, you know, the river, the bed structure and sediment.
01:24:00 I think in Noosa River, I think we've got a combination. Yeah. I used to work a trawler. Councillor Jackson: This is really off topic, point of order. Councillor Pardon: Well, I'm referring to the content of the report where it says scientists debated and the conclusion was not seagrass and mangroves, but like a riverbed structure, sediment from erosion. Councillor Wilkie: Oh, wow. Go ahead. Councillor Pardon: Yeah, I'm talking to that particular paragraph with regards to... Antidotal evidence. Myself having worked a trawler and stirred up the sediment of Moreton Bay that you see when you drag in the otter boards behind you, this clearly is a big disturbance on the bottom. And then with regards to seagrass, you're planing it all off.
01:25:00 So Moreton Bay thus becomes similar to Noosa River with regards to sediment, erosion, et cetera. You're at... Well, the erosion... The erosion that comes in the river, but you're stirring it up constantly. So it's a combination of losing that seagrass sediment control and your oysters, et cetera, that we've lost. So I think it's a whole series. I don't think anyone's particularly right or wrong, but I'm not going to argue with scientists. If that's what they said, that's fine with me. Mr Chairman. So I certainly support you in your endeavour. Speaker 4: Thank you, Councillor Powell. Yes. Obviously, our councillors, we are having a meeting on Thursday where I've been asked to come and do the quarter three report of the latest activities, and obviously we'll go into some of the ideas we're looking at and where we are in the project. Councillor Wilkie: Provide more detail there. Speaker 4: Provide more detail. That might be a more easy discussion where we're going rather than where we've been. Councillor Wilkie: Where we've been. Councillor Jess, and then Councillor Stockwell.
01:26:00 Councillor Jackson: So I actually do have questions. So I'm not... I'm not yet going to speak to the motion, but I do have questions, and I do appreciate that you're here, and I certainly, you know, recognise that you've been on well, and I'm very happy to see you looking healthy and that you're here, and that's really terrific. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm interested to hear from you that you had a checklist compiled based on Councillor Jackson's questions. I would be most interested in seeing that checklist. Because then I would be able to have a look at your current annual report and say, well... Speaker 4: Did you not get a copy of this one? Yeah. Councillor Jackson: Oh, I know what my questions were. Oh, you used my question. That's what you used. Speaker 4: I used your questions and checked the responses. Councillor Jackson: Oh, okay. Thank you. All right. Fine. I'm going to ask a number of questions, and I might add that some of these questions are linked with... I'm going to ask a number of questions that I did find, while this is called very clearly the 2017-18 annual report, it actually reports on a number of different years, and I find it a bit conflated, so in fact, it also reports on this budget year, the one we're in now, it also reports on some of the previous ones, and in my corporate and government experience with annual reports, usually you stick to the year that you're reporting on.
01:27:00 Speaker 4: I'm not aware of that. We've tried to be quite careful with that. If we could point out where we made things, where we got it wrong. Councillor Jackson: So, anyway, I'll ask questions, and some of that will come through. I'm going through it chronologically in terms of what's on page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, so there's no particular order here, but the first question is, 2017-18 grant round, $330,000 distributed. What proportion of that went to organizations where... Directors are office bearers in those organizations.
01:28:00 Speaker 4: Of that, let me just be careful there, there were two that were directly involved with that. Sorry, three, if you count the fact that I'm treasurer of Landcare, Landcare got a project, I'm a member of, I'm actually treasurer as well of Country Noosa, and also one, NPA with Michael Gloss were involved in one of the smaller projects. And as I say, we were very, very careful to stand back and not be involved in those decisions. Councillor Jackson: Okay. Just my, having gone to your website, I see here in your website that $188,720 went to NPA, Noosa District and Landcare and Country Noosa out of the $330,000 that went to Country So about 57%. Speaker 4: They're very different. The Landcare one is the next work of keeping it in Kin Kin, was a significant number.
01:29:00 And the, so I would have thought probably much more like 80, 85% of that total went to two, which were the larger projects, one of which, as I say, is the extension of keeping it in Kin Kin. The first round of keeping it, in fact, we're calling it keep keeping it in Kin Kin, I hate to say there's going to be a problem with that. Anyway, the first round of keeping it in Kin Kin was the LiDAR study that showed how the contours of the Kin Kin catchment have changed, and therefore could identify the problem areas. And what keep keeping it in Kin Kin has done is to actually then turn those into the priority areas where we could, if you like, for one of those projects, we could actually turn these things for the best return on the buck. And so it's identified five key sites, and that involved a lot of surveying and work
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01:30:00 on the ground and so on. Councillor Jurisevic: That funding would have gone to Landcare, that would have been the LiDAR. Speaker 4: Yes, yeah. The original keep in Kin Kin was organised by Landcare, involving a whole group of people. And, you know, Healthy Land and Waterways, for example, did a lot of the graphics work and so on. We are now in a stage with that where we are seeking funding for how we can do the repairs Speaker 3: that are required by these five things. So that's moving to the next round. Speaker 4: The other big issue is with 65,000 went to country Noosa to complete the rural enterprise plan. And the idea there is to say that we paid little attention to the hinterland, and the hinterland needs to be re-established. And it needs some understanding of what rural enterprises can be put into the hinterland, alongside the sort of changing ownership, where there are more and more lifestyle owners
01:31:00 out there that want to have some farming and a rural lifestyle. So we've just about to get around to publishing that. There's some very interesting documents, like if you want to do grazing in the hinterland, here's a 13-page document that says what are the key things you should do. If you want to do ecotourism, here are the things. So we're looking forward to being able to publish that. So that's it. And I think the one that went to NPA was 20,000. It didn't go to NPA on its own. I think it was NPA and Tourism News. So that was actually... That was the World Heritage, which hasn't gone ahead. Councillor Jackson: So can you explain that? What happened there? Speaker 4: To be frank, the two partners fell out. They couldn't agree who was the lead project leader. So that was a bit sad. Okay. Councillor Jackson: Another question I have is, I'm just reading what you wrote as your president's message. And you said the role of NBRF has always been to bring forward big ideas to get them implemented.
01:32:00 Previously, we got the ideas and projects via community grant rounds. Under the new three-year agreement, the NBRF itself is charged to research and identify big ideas and then action them. And I might add, that's the three-year grant round, the three-year fund that even began after this annual report. That's true. Speaker 4: I think the only point I would make is that that discussion that produced the funding report was done in 2017-18. We all put a lot of effort in there. So we knew it... Councillor Jackson: So you worked on it then. Yeah. Speaker 4: No, no. At the end of 2017-18, we knew what the conclusions were going to be, and we started to think about how we were going to react to that. Okay. So I think I will defend that point. Sure. All right. Councillor Jackson: So, nevertheless, it seems to indicate that you are no longer charged with getting the ideas and projects via grant rounds, but my understanding is that really you are... I guess the new funding deed is encouraging more fundraising so that you can do grant
01:33:00 rounds. Speaker 4: Well, I think... No, I think the discussions we've had about that is that, obviously, we'll get funding and we're challenged to do that, and we will do that, but I think there was more behind that. It was more to do the sort of thing we did with Bring Back the Fish, which was to stand back and say, what are the really big ideas, with community support and so on, and how do we action them, and undoubtedly, we'll action them with a lot of community involvement. So I think it was more than just do more grant rounds. I think it was actually saying, make sure you really research and so on big ideas. Councillor Jackson: Okay. Yeah. Another thing that was written in your report is that there's a... There's a three-year agreement that sets out a process whereby the operational budget will be reviewed each year, and that some project money will be earmarked for NBRF to apply for. In fact, the funding deed specifically quarantined 125,000 in the first year, but in the rest
01:34:00 it's in competition with all other good communities. Speaker 4: Yes, that's right. Councillor Jackson: You understand that, don't you? I do. Speaker 4: Yeah. Thanks. The reality is, just so that the council knows, we actually had the 250,000 at the end of 2017-18, which is obviously available for us to work that, and that certainly I think is going to be keeping us well going through this year, and so I don't think we will be asking for any of that money this year in terms of your financial planning. But obviously, during this time, we'll be doing the research that tells us where we should be doing projects. Councillor Jackson: Okay. We'll come back to that. Thank you. Page 10, you refer to working with the Noosa Community Bicycle Association, and of course we know there's been some issues. Yeah. You say, we are committed to helping NCBA however we can as an important community part of NBR, but you don't say how, so I'm just wondering if you can tell us a bit about how. Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. As you know, it was a pretty disastrous situation.
01:35:00 The personality clashes and so on. Yeah. And at the moment, they are in a sort of delicate stage of rebuilding. The initial help we gave was really to help them fund and run the Biosphere Fund Day that was held up in Kin Kin, which was very successful. I think there was a significant number of people that went there. Quite a lot of people went out to Kin Kin, which is good, to get people out there, and there was a lot of fun had. That sort of helped them rebuild the team a bit. That's a good thing. And we invited John News, the President, and one of his committee members to join us at the Biosphere, the Australian Biosphere Conference to see that. And we particularly want to see how other biospheres really engage volunteer members and so on and feed that back. So it's really, it started off with supporting, and obviously the Biosphere Day we see is
01:36:00 both, both organisations being very committed to. And so that's what we're doing. That's a really good thing. They're now, they're now getting their act together and supporting, I've given them some help on financials and given them some help on communication. Councillor Jackson: So my understanding is that the Noosa Community Biosphere Association, when it was set up side by side with Noosa Foundation, that its intent was that that would be the voice of the community about managing the biosphere. Speaker 4: I think as the, as the first founding president that set it up. The, the, the belief was it would be a membership organisation, a community membership organisation to tackle, you know, any of those issues that came up in, in, in discussion. The, the early work, I think, which is very appropriate and is being reinforced, was to educate and engage the community in what a biosphere actually is. Because if you ask people what a biosphere is, you don't get too many good answers.
01:37:00 So that we produced the, the, the video. Which is still in, holding in good stead, got a clap at the, at the biosphere conference. And it basically explains, and we, when I was president there, we ran 40 sessions with, on average of 25 people at a session, so 1,000 people. And we did it at a community, at the meetings of other community groups. And that was very successful. We had a very pleasing example where we had a group of people, we had a group of people, you know, we would start the meeting and say, well, who around here would be prepared to describe what a biosphere is, and maybe you've got one gingerly hand lifted up. And, but at the end of it, they all put their hand up. So I thought that was a, they clapped the video and they put their hand up to say, yes, they could explain. So I think that, but I mean, you know, that's 1,000 people out of 55,000, and, and plus our visitors. So we've got a big task there, which, sorry, which I think it's a, one of the big issues
01:38:00 for, for NCBA. Councillor Jackson: Another question I have is on page 11, you referred, well, we know that the foundation has obtained gift recipient status so that you can receive donations. And then in page 11, you refer to researching and proposing the ideas and looking at state and grant fund, federal grant programs for philanthropic institutes, private individual and corporate funds. But then your example that you give is that you've helped Country Noosa seek a grant from the Queensland Land Restoration Fund. Now, Dick, you are past president of the Country Noosa and you are treasurer of Country Noosa. So how is helping Country Noosa get a grant from a federal organization actually anything to do with the foundation and gift recipient status and fundraising? Speaker 4: So the, the land restoration. Fund, and basically I coached, and I had no problem with that, there was no decision
01:39:00 rule making being involved there. The, the land restoration fund, which we don't know whether we've got the grant or not yet. And it happened in, in a very short space of time that we, I think we had two days to see if we could submit one. So there wasn't a lot of time for bureaucracy. The, the, the scheme is, it's $150,000 project. The budget is $150,000. City Council and so on, been working with them, Kim and her team, and the idea is can we make a, let me go back a stage, the Land Restoration Fund is basically a carbon market initiative to actually say what markets could you start that would fund things, and we've been struggling obviously with the hinterland, the degradation of the land there and so on, what can we do to improve that, and we came together with council and
01:40:00 the waste team and said can we actually take some of the mulch, and maybe compost it or not, and spread it onto the damaged land of the hinterland and pay from it, offset carbon market. So it's a research phase, we don't know whether they've got it yet, the program is a little bit contentious because the State of the Government have announced it as a $500 million program, they're only providing $5 million at this stage and $30 million later, and the rest of the market is supposed to come from, the money is supposed to come from carbon markets. It's a very exciting project, we got quite carried away didn't we, and I see it as very much a big idea. Councillor Jackson: So it's a big idea, but again, you are the past president and the current treasurer of Country Noosa, so as a current treasurer it would be part of your normal role as a volunteer treasurer to help them with their grant.
01:41:00 But now we're hearing that, unbeknownst to councillors, there's also involvement by council in this project. Speaker 4: It's interesting to know at what level you want to be involved in all the projects we do, if you really want to get to that detail and be alerted ahead of time, then I will. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: I can say that because I'm involved, I'm completely aware, and I think it's great that I took the opportunity to attend various conferences to understand this, and I think it's fantastic that the Biosphere is working with Country Noosa on such really foresight applications, and I really think it's wonderful how one of the top 100 chief financial officers of the globe in past life is now working with a range of community groups and integrating outcomes for our Biosphere, and I think it's excellent. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you.
01:42:00 On a volunteer basis. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: On a volunteer basis, yes. Councillor Jackson: Thank you Brian, I do understand through the Chair that perhaps you used to be paid by Country Noosa, for your work as a consultant. Speaker 4: I think we wouldn't need to, Mr Chair, may I speak to this? I think we need to... Deputy Mayor Stockwell: No, I better respond to that. Okay, sorry. To the, I take it as a question, I have previously declared an interest in that prior to the election, and being elected, I as a consultant did work on a 75% pro bono basis for Country Noosa, to assist with the project to look at opportunities to build better drought resilience into our rural economy and options for that. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Biosphere, and once again an indication how someone active in the community over a long time wears various different hats for the benefit of the community, just as the current Chair of the Noosa Biosphere Reserve Foundation,
01:43:00 current Chair of the Treasurer of the Landcare Association, and current Treasurer of the Community Noosa, and I repeat, that these things are a positive and beneficial aspect of our community that so many people are willing to commit their time to these endeavours, rather than seek to forensically investigate and suggest some ill motive, which is, I think, quite unfortunate in this case. Councillor Wilkie: So Brian, you're involved in the project, your awareness of the project that Dick's talking about here, the land funders, as a councillor? Certainly. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: So we have a circular economy working group, which I've been invited to in my role as a councillor. Speaker 4: I do think as community groups we need to take use of the talent wherever we can find it, and I think we do need to make sure that it's unbiased and so on. We had an opportunity within two or three days to put in a grant,
01:44:00 which would be very beneficial to the country. The other thing I would add, you know, I've been, for ten years I was Chief Financial Officer of one of the world's largest countries, and I'm pretty aware of the government. Councillor Wilkie: One of the things, being in a small community like Noosa, is that in terms of volunteerism, a lot of times the work, the bulk of the work, falls to a hard core of a few individuals, who, as has been mentioned before, are on the committee of many, many committees. Councillor Jackson: So I do have a couple more questions. One is that on the NBR website, and all the previous NBRF communications, the proponents for all the three big bring back the fish projects were NPA and the Thomas Foundation. In your annual report,
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01:45:00 you've listed the proponents for the oyster reef project as USC, and the prime study proponent as UQ. Can you explain that? Speaker 4: I think maybe it's a bad use of the word proponent. They're actually the people that are largely engaged in executing those projects. Councillor Jackson: Right, okay. Speaker 4: So we will change that word. Thanks. Councillor Jurisevic: I've been initiated by the various groups, but the undertaking of the work has been undertaken by the site of UQ. Speaker 4: Sorry. And in the way that you've just described it, we facilitated this land restoration project. It's a restoration grant, but it's under the name of Compton News. We'll do it. Councillor Jackson: Yeah. Also, you mentioned on page 56 that project monitoring will be continuing through 2019 for the oyster reef project, and yet we are aware that USC contract ends in April. So how can it be that the NBRF oyster reef project, we're now not talking about any further one,
01:46:00 but how can it be that it continues to be monitored when the USC contract is not? Speaker 4: If I'm totally frank, given it's in the monitoring phase, we, through our project assurance people, can do that monitoring at a fraction of the cost that USC wanted. Councillor Jackson: So you're not monitoring the science, you're monitoring something else? Speaker 4: No, we're monitoring the actual reefs that are there. Councillor Jackson: Right, to see how they're going. Speaker 4: Yes, and we will do that through volunteers and the guy we use, Simon Walker. Oh, okay. Yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: That's your ongoing cameras and things? Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's basically... And underwater cameras? Yeah, and USC have agreed that we're not paying any further money, so that compensates for us having to pay some money to other consultants. And we have been... We've actually had a little bit of a debate with them that a lot of their information about fish habitats and so on is coming from some of our work,
01:47:00 so we're entitled to that reporting. Okay. It's quite interesting. I went to... Sorry, if I may. Yeah. I just went... Is this okay? Yeah. I went to a meeting in Melbourne of the Nature Conservancy, and it was all about how to develop oyster reefs and so on in the future. And it was very exciting. They were very excited about what we're doing and what we're potentially doing. And I had no idea of just how extensive the role of oysters is in purifying the river and so on, but the left-hand one was absolutely crystal clear, and it just showed the effect that oysters can have on... And so that may be a very good help with some sediment and so on, as well as just the fish. Councillor Jackson: So my final question is actually about the KPIs
01:48:00 that are listed in the report. Oh, yeah? And that is that, again, the KPIs that are used there for assessment are actually the new ones that began in July 2018. In the current financial year, they're not pertaining to the previous financial year. Speaker 4: Except, again, the contents of the... As is listed in this, it spelled out the KPIs, but that was produced at the end of 2017-18, and why wouldn't we use those for 17-18? Because it was already discussed and... Okay. Well, I don't... Speaker 8: In fact, you'll see in the cover report on page... Speaker 5: 112. Speaker 8: 112. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. On page 113, I think it is, the cover report indicates that those new funding agreement KPIs have been used. They're probably better and more expensive than the ones that were in the previous... Oh, thanks. That's probably much better. Speaker 4: Yes, the other... Councillor Jackson: And to be fair, Speaker 4: we knew that... You know that was happening
01:49:00 at the end of 17-18, so why not use them? Councillor Jackson: The other related question is, again, relating to the purpose of an annual report, and that is, the KPI should be measuring the performance in the year that is being reported on. Yes. And then each year, the annual reports report on their year, Speaker 4: and then you get trends, so you can compare. I understand that. Yeah. And so, the KVPs we... KPI, KPIs, we've put in are actually what happened in 2017-18. Councillor Jackson: Some of them seem to be from the whole three years of... Speaker 4: But going back, because there are projects that we're running through... Maldives. Maldives projects Councillor Jackson: that are running in 17-18. Oh, yeah. Okay. It does seem a bit confusing. Okay. Thank you. And, Dick, thank you very much. I really appreciate that you have come and, you know, been willing to... Speaker 4: Be delighted. Councillor Jackson: ...ask questions, and that's terrific. Speaker 4: I'm delighted to do that. Yeah. And I look forward to talking a bit more about it on Thursday. Councillor Jackson: Now, we still have a motion, Councillor Wilkie: but... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:50:00 Any other councillors wish to speak to the motion? Councillor Jackson: Oh, I should... Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Stockwell. Yeah. Yeah. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Yeah. Firstly, Dick, thanks for the report. It was... I think the 2017 and 18 projects were a great demonstration of the diversity of interest in our community. So, when you're looking at the Kabi Kabi Kabi developing a cultural learning trail. Yeah. I've had the pleasure recently, because of that project, that we start to see traditional owners walking around the streets in Tewantin having a chat with them, you know, just building their culture. I think the Noosa Trail Master Plan, we're looking at more an economic focus, on how do we build on our natural assets to broaden our economy. And I look at the roadmap to 100% renewable energy, where the community is looking at how can it match council's effort. So, these are great things that the Biosphere Reserve Foundation is helping to promote in the community. I note in the report and your verbal explanation of your hypothesis approach,
01:51:00 and I think that's another important thing that I think some people in the community aren't quite getting at the moment. Absolutely. Yeah. So, when we look at addressing the issues in this community, we have to take an integrated natural resource management approach that's also based on the precautionary principle. And the precautionary principle talks about, you know, the one that I prefer is that, yeah, I've just, I've just lost it. I'll come back to that. Here we go. Here we go. The precautionary principle shall be widely applied. And it said, where there are threats of serious and, and irreversible damage, lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a reason for postponing cost-effective measures to prevent environmental degradation. That is a principle that I think this whole room should understand,
01:52:00 is that we do have some serious implications from the work that your science, in the project you're doing, have for our community. And to suggest we should be postponing further till we have full scientific certainty, is one that places our valuable natural assets at a greater risk than I'm willing to accept. So I think it is really important to say that I really support how NBRF are doing it. And when there are learnings coming throughout a project to communicate those learnings, so that others can make decisions about how to respond. I think the final one was actually quite an interesting one, which came from your conversation and Councillor Wilkie. And that's about the fact that there is no federal funding for biospheres. And there is no state funding for biospheres. And this is something that maybe NBRF and or Council can have a look at, in that we have a fairly ludicrous situation at the moment,
01:53:00 where billions are being pumped into basket case environments, a la, the Murray River Basin. It's completely stuffed, to put it in a highly technical term. Yet there is no money to look after the good things that are left in South East Queensland. So we are actually quite disadvantaged. You know, further north, just to the north of us, we have a lot of investment in the reef, which is very useful and valuable. And I think there is an advocacy role, both for the Biosphere Foundation, with maybe partners in other biospheres, to say hey, in the lead up to the federal election, we want to see guaranteed funding come from the feds. It shouldn't all come out of the ratepayers' money. We can get good value for money, but we want to highlight that we're internationally recognised for what we do, and there should be a stream of funding there. Speaker 4: Can I add to that? Yes, sure. There's a very complicated structure with UNESCO, of how things work up through the chain. It's very complicated. It's very one-sided.
01:54:00 I mean, thou wilt do this, thou wilt do that. And it's... So we formed this group to really do some action. It's a bit of a... That's why we've been called an informal cabal, because we haven't asked for permission. We've just gone ahead and do that. Very, very keen to make the case to government. The other side of that is the government has responsibilities to manage part of the UNESCO chain. And it's completely under-resourced. In terms of the periodic review which we submitted, the person that we were submitting it to, it changed 12 times in the course of the year we were writing it. It's just a casual job thrown out to people. And we're working hard to change that attitude. If we could get man taken off, man in the biosphere, we'd be really pleased. Councillor Wilkie: Jess, you had a question. Councillor Glasgow: Yeah, just a quick one. More about the NCBA and the demise of their...
01:55:00 Yeah. Forward and so forth. And as you spoke about it before, this whole vision of the biosphere in the community is still so, so, so yet to be out there in the community. And you've talked about just a thousand people. I forget the actual number of just before. I struggled to get in the report about the strategic view about how you're really going to get the greatness of the biosphere and obviously with the demise of NCBA coming to where it is. Yeah. Where are you looking at strategically? In a really nutshell, just very dumb it down so I can speak to a three-year-old. What are you going to do in the future to get this out to people in every which way and form, especially the younger? Yeah, absolutely. And also there's the middle-aged and the older. It's still very far away from it. So it's very simple. Speaker 4: Yeah. Firstly, we can't allow the NCBA to disappear. We need to really do that very well. We've got a lot of... We've got a lot of good ideas from this conference.
01:56:00 And there are biospheres doing a much better job with the indigenous group. There are some biospheres doing a much better job with the children and so on. And I think that whole process of communicating and educating... I think the message that came out, just to dumb it down, is you're much better talking about something you've done that illustrates the case than doing a theoretical presentation about what a biosphere is. Mm-hmm. One of the powerful things that came out of the discussion was one-minute videos. You know, you make a short, punchy, get to the heart of what this issue is and then use it as an illustration of doing good in the biosphere. The other thing, if I can throw it a bit back to you, because Council now have taken on the role of the overall manager of the biosphere, and so we're in this together about how we educate the community. So I'd be very interested to know how Council wants to do this. Thanks for that.
01:57:00 Excuse me. Councillor Jurisevic: Who's having a bite here? Just a question to follow up on that. I mean, one would think that the projects, like when they get to community engagement stage, is an opportunity for the NCBA to re-establish and actually become a member of NCBA to be involved in these projects going forward. I totally agree. So those are the things I would suggest. Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's totally right. I think that's a good point. Absolutely right. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Can I have a quick question to you, Dick? Do you think the concept that's coming out of Council, where we've started the environmental roundtable and then the partnership approach with the Environment NRM Group Forum, which both NBRF and NCBA are involved in, do you see that has some opportunity to play that greater coordination role and work out who's best to deliver what messages? Speaker 4: I think it's all very helpful. Some of the difficult thing is everybody has their own role. They have their own patch that they garden and want to defend.
01:58:00 But I think you're doing a great job to get around that. We are very keen that we have a particular role is bringing big ideas that are in line with them and in the Biosphere Programme and making them work. And integrating that with some of the activities and projects that other parts of the NRM Conference do is a great part of that. So I welcome that opportunity. And I think we don't want to duplicate what other people are doing. We want to supplement and add to. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Jackson. Councillor Jackson: I would just like to say a few words now. Thank you for the questions and the answers. I guess I'm going to highlight a few things. One is that I continue to be concerned about the lack of engagement with the community by the Noosa Biosphere Foundation.
01:59:00 And I think instructively, councillors, we just had a meeting last Thursday with our new communications manager who emphasised the difference between communication and engagement. And particularly because communication, the way he defined it, and I think this is relevant here, was more about informing people. So we're information. And engagement is really more about participation and involvement. And to me, that's what's not, it is missing. I think that there is a tendency, and this can happen even amongst council, that engagement goes through community groups as if that means you've engaged the whole community. And in fact, you have not. And I think here we've got an issue where NBRF is operating, perhaps it certainly has relationships, but it's not engaging with the community.
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02:00:00 It may be informing the community. Media releases are going out. Website is there. But I think there needs to be a look at how engagement might be done better. Speaker 4: Yeah. Am I allowed to? No. Okay. That's fine. Shut up. Councillor Jackson: I guess the other, and I think that actually links with the confusion the community has about the biosphere. Because you can tell them what it is, but they're not really personally engaged. And it means they're confused about what the Noosa Biosphere Foundation is and what it's actually doing as well. So I think there's a fair bit of lack, that lack of engagement is driving the lack of understanding. The other one that I continue to be concerned about is, of course, as you know, conflicts of interest. I think there are conflicts of interest. We know we're a small community. Inevitably, there are people who do play, wear more than one hat. But I think those conflicts of interest
02:01:00 need to be very upfront and stated, not just, oh, not said. I think it has to be upfront. And how are we dealing with that? And I think a lot of the processes need to be competitive to make sure that the people, where there are conflicts of interest, that, in fact, there's competition allowed for other groups to get the same benefits. Councillor Pardon: Just as a point of order there, Mr Chairman, I'll accept perceived conflicts of interest. Councillor Jackson was talking about conflicts of interest. Yes, correct. I think that's not correct. I think it's perceived, some people might perceive in the community. Councillor Wilkie: Well, the conflicts were handled the way the local government handles conflicts of interest. Councillor Pardon: Yeah, I understand. I'm listening to... Councillor Wilkie: OK, point made. Councillor Jackson: OK, I guess what I'm talking about is office bearers who are also directors, and that's actually direct conflict of interest. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: No, no, no, no.
02:02:00 I have a point of order. Councillor Wilkie: It was clearly stated that they were not part of any decision-making process. They declared the conflict of interest, were not part of the panel. Councillor Jackson: Well, I'm not talking about that. That was associated with the project. To be Councillor Wilkie, who is the member of the board. Councillor Wilkie: And I'm the chair of this meeting and I'm clarifying. Councillor Jackson: I'm explaining to you that I'm not talking about the process that took place with the last grant round, but I'm referring as an example to the fact that Country Noosa is getting a leg up from NBRF for grant submissions, and there are many organisations that could well feel they could be getting a leg up from NBRF as well. And I think that's why I'm saying I think it needs to be competitive, that's my point. Speaker 4: And I have to say, that's exactly what we do, inviting everybody to give us ideas and help us. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. Mr Chair, point of order. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Point of order. The point of order is the council is going down the path of seeking to make comment
02:03:00 on the internal operations of a not-for-profit group. My view was that is not in any way directly related to the annual report. I therefore think she is going off topic. And therefore... Point of order. Councillor Jackson: I will continue. I will continue. I was actually referring to something that was in the annual report, and I do actually consider that all the funding, and it's been, you know, in the vicinity of at least 1.5 million and onward, is ratepayers' money and that these things do need to be totally transparent. And I guess the last one I'm concerned about is something that Councillor Stockwell began to talk about here. And that is that I think that It is excellent that we are using, that you are using, bringing in scientists to do work and to write reports, but I have begun to notice that reports that are only interim reports or monitoring reports, where scientists haven't come to a conclusion yet about causation, are being immediately used to assume causation for certain things.
02:04:00 And I think we have to be very careful that people who are laypersons, NBRF directors, counsellors, do not pre-empt scientific information from scientists who have yet to decide what is really a cause of some of the problems. And, you know, I think it's taking away from the meaningfulness of science if laypeople begin to insert causation. Before the scientists have actually done their hypotheses and their research and testing of those hypotheses. Speaker 4: Can I assure you that everything we do is linking back to those scientists? All of the issues about where are we with the... Councillor Jurisevic: Sorry? Mayor Wellington: Sorry, you can't respond.
02:05:00 Councillor Jackson: Sorry. Sorry, sorry. Councillor Wilkie: Go ahead. Councillor Jackson: I'm finished. Those are the points I'd like to make. I also, again, very much want to thank... Dick Barnes for coming here. I think that's terrific that you came to listen and to answer questions. Thank you very much. Councillor Wilkie: Look, I'd like to speak now. There's some statements made in the last speech that claim that NBRF is not engaging with the community. NBRF may not, the board itself, may not be out and about meeting and greeting, shaking hands, so on and so forth. But NBRF has facilitated a range of projects, which has involved enormous community engagement. I can think of one project alone, the pandanus preservation project, where an expert who's considered premier in his field about pandanus health engaged with bush care groups across the Shire, explaining to them the ecosystem that each individual pandanus plant was,
02:06:00 how to recognise when a pandanus plant is in trouble, what are the threats, what are the remedies. There are numerous bush care groups. There are council staff involved. There are interested residents involved. I think there are maybe 80 or 90 people engaged in that one project alone. The Noosa Master Trail Network, another NBRF facilitated project, involved talks with a trail, a world class trail network, which is a project that's been going on for many years. The NBRF is an expert, engaged with stakeholder groups across the Shire, from Kin Kin to the coast, equine groups, cycling groups, outdoor running groups, walking groups, about their expectations, community groups, scout groups, their expectations for the trail network. The engagement is happening around a range of projects, not in its own right.
02:07:00 So the claim that NBRF is not engaging is absolutely false. And I would contest that. You only need to talk to anyone who's been involved in those two projects to know that NBRF facilitated projects have involved a lot of community engagement. I think there's a tendency for some of us to apply a standard that the council's not even prepared to apply to itself in talking about engagement and also conflicts of interest. The conflicts of interest within NBRF were declared. Sorry. Were declared. And there were real conflicts of interest. And that is, there were directors who were, well, committee positions. They declared them. They had nothing, absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with any decisions to do with any grants, as is happens with this council when there's a matter before the council involving a grant recipient.
02:08:00 If any of us are a committee member, we declare a real conflict of interest and leave the room. Okay. So to expect that the NBRF, which is a volunteer-run organisation, somehow use a higher standard than this local government is prepared to apply to itself, I think is entirely unreasonable. The claim for total transparency is an easy one to make, but I would like to commend Dick Barnes, who is a volunteer. The extent and depth and detail in this report, for example, is a demonstration of his commitment to transparency. He's willingness to turn up. Four times a year and brief councillors on the progress of NBRF is, again, a demonstration of transparency. We can claim talk is cheap. Any of us can claim that there is not enough transparency. But my thought's always with the people who are doing, the volunteers who are doing the work. Councillor Jackson: Point of order. No. Talk is cheap was this, actually, let me say.
02:09:00 Point of order. I believe that Councillor Wilkie, yourself, has failed to comply. You have failed to comply with proper meeting procedure in that no member or council employee shall make personal reflections or impute improper motives to any other member or council employee. Well, I'm going to... Councillor Wilkie: You have made... As a chair, I'll always err on the side of acknowledgement, and I would apologise if you've taken any offence from that general statement. I'll continue. My thoughts are always with the volunteers who are doing the work. Since 2007, Noosa Biosphere Reserve designation has caused controversy. There's always been volunteers who have been doing the work and working in the best interests of the Shire. That continues with the latest iteration. There has been a lot of misinformation around the role of Noosa Biosphere Reserve Foundation, which is a foundation established to oversee a charitable trust that facilitates projects that improves the environment, the socio-economic health of the community.
02:10:00 They've been doing that. They are not responsible for managing the entire Biosphere Reserve. And the latest... The greatest shift that's happened in recent years is an acknowledgement that everyone around this table here, that is the councillors and the Noosa Council, plus also the state agencies, actually have the levers and the capacity to pull the levers that effectively manages what we know as the Noosa Biosphere Reserve, which is the Noosa Shire local government area, the Noosa electorate, state electorate. And that's what we've done. So we've done a lot of work on that. I think councillors, we owe a great debt of thanks to this man who's sitting before us today, and his team of board members, all volunteers, all with a great level of expertise, beyond mine. As a councillor representative on that board, I would like to say I'm proud of what I see, I'm happy and privileged to support the work that the volunteers are doing, provide whatever
02:11:00 support I can. Yes, it's right that we ask questions, ratepayers' money is involved, but to impugn improper motives and cast aspersions on the work that's being done, there's always room for improvement, but it just rubs me up the wrong way. Councillor Jackson: Point of order, you are, again, I believe you have failed to comply with the proper meaning procedure in that you're impugning that somehow there's somebody impugning improper motives, and you are therefore making personal reflections on myself. Councillor Wilkie: No, no, I was impugning that some, the tone of the questions was impugning improper motives and proper processes being conducted within the NBRF. So. I don't concur with your point of order there. Councillor Jackson: Well, my questions were very factual. Councillor Wilkie: Oh, I don't agree. So, I'm pleased that the Mayor has added a vote of thanks to the Board of Members of the NBRF here.
02:12:00 Now, Councillor Jurisdict. Councillor Jurisevic: Thank you. Congratulations, Dick. I think what we're seeing here in particular, we're seeing 54 organisations, 54 proposals being put forward to the NBRF shows, and NBRF has got, a wide-ranging acknowledgement from various community groups to put up these sort of ideas, and you can see the opportunities that the NBRF is now starting to present for ideas to come forward and be presented to this community and this Council for consideration going forward. And it's clear, within the nine proposals that have been put forward, that the proponents now are many, wide, and various, and diverse. So, we're getting a wider range. You know, the PNC Association, Torres and Noosa themselves, and the ZEN, Marine Ecology and Indigenous Cooperation, Portage and Beach Community Association. These are great entities within.
02:13:00 And when you look at who they're working with, you see that what we're doing is tapping into the wealth of local organisations that have the capacity to do this. And there is some commonality within those, and they do, they may be some of the other entities, like White Land Care and the Kids' Community. But that's only because they're the expander that is local, that has the capacity to deliver, and the wherewithal to be a partner in these projects. So, I'm proud to see that. I'm proud to see the diversity of entities that they're working with as well. That is expanding and growing our community and the opportunities in our community to work with these entities and grow and develop themselves. So, it's fantastic. Even down to individuals. Such as, you know, a store like Bob Carey of the Glossy Blacks and the work that he does with the bush tucker around St. John's Beach State School. I find that endearing, and I find that a fascinating expansion and a growth of our community that these projects are now starting to deliver.
02:14:00 Speaker 8: I find that fantastic. Councillor Jurisevic: It is challenging within any community organisation. I've worked with many. Yes, you have. When the perceived conflicts arise. But to suggest that, you know, that there's any necessary material benefit coming to anybody when all these organisations are community organisations and not the profits as well. It begs belief with me. And challenges my structure. But I can see that when an entity is getting money, it does seem to challenge some people's thinking. And that the perceived conflicts of interest are there. And they're being dealt with, as you've said, in the manner in which council would deal with them. And that is to raise your hand, make awareness and step aside so that you're not involved in the process. So, I congratulate you on that. I think NBRF, while still a relatively fledgling organisation, is achieving great things and continues to achieve great things and continues to work with an ever expanding number of entities.
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02:15:00 And I think that that all goes well for the future. I do see the challenges of NCBA. But I see the opportunity in getting the community engaged in those projects in which community involvement is there. And there's many, many and very, raise the possibility of NCBA membership to be involved in those projects going forward. And I hope that's an opportunity that NCBA see and can expand on and grow and develop their membership for the future. I, too, would like to acknowledge the mayors. There's an amendment there or an addition there to the recommendation and thank the volunteer members. And remember, they are volunteer members of the board, of the NBRF, for their efforts and their ongoing efforts. And we can hope to see a continued number of great big and small ideas coming forward for consideration for funding for the future.
02:16:00 Councillor Wilkie: Jess, do you wish to speak? No. Councillor Lange, do you wish to close? Mayor Wellington: Sure. It was suggested during the debate that the community is confused about what the biosphere is and does. And let's just note that they've had 11 years to try and find out what the biosphere is and does. And Noosa Biosphere Limited had around six and a half years of that time. Noosa Biosphere Reserve Foundation, NCBA have had four and a half years. I think personally, probably people are clearer now, I would hope they are, about the function and role of biosphere. Than they ever have been in the past. But it's been a long journey and it will never be a totally successful journey. I mean, over a decade, people are still confused. That means they're potentially not engaging. I'm not sure how much further effort any organisation, but Council can assist here, should put into explaining the role of the biosphere.
02:17:00 I just do want to go to this notion that office bearers associated with other organisations. Sit on the NBRF board. And that's, I just want to say it's somewhat inevitable. Because most committed, passionate volunteers in our community are members of multiple groups. And I don't know why we should expect that to be any different on the NBRF board. And as Councillor Jurisevic has noted, I can't see board members personally benefiting financially from decisions being made by the board. The organisations they're associated with maybe. And as long as those matters are handled appropriately. We're being assured they are in a transparent matter with appropriate conflict of interest measures in place. Then I don't think there should be any specific cause for castigation of the organisation in that regard. There's been a suggestion there's a lack of engagement by the community, with the community by NBRF. I'd just like to point out that the NBRF is not just influencing the community. It's having a massive influence on Noosa Council and Council's decision making.
02:18:00 NBRF is not happening in isolation. For example, the Skeletor research may well prove to be one of the most significant and influential research projects undertaken in the Shire. And it will definitely have influence both on our Noosa River plan coming up. But also on Council's focus and priorities for some years to come. The Oyster Reef trial that NBRF supported is a forerunner to the larger partnership project that Council's now undertaking with the Nature Conservancy. The Mapping Koala Health project. This project plays into our consideration about measures to preserve these species. And of course there's the Koala Forever project as well. And these are in fact on the agenda for our discussion today at this meeting. And that once again shows how NBRF plays into issues that are of concern to the Noosa Council and the community. The Noosa Trail Master Plan project has implications for Noosa Council spending and our discussions with Tourism on Tourism, Sustainability etc.
02:19:00 The funding of the Roadmap to 100% Renewable Energy. That project absolutely dovetails with what Council's trying to do. And ZEN Inc are trying to do. And will also play into our funding opportunities to the community for renewable energy projects etc. So almost everything NBRF is doing, it's not doing in isolation. It's actually doing it to complement what Council and the community are trying to do themselves. And if the Roadmap to 100% Renewable Energy funding is done. Then the Roadmap to 100% Renewable Energy isn't a classic example of working both towards Council's objectives and the community's objectives. I don't know what is. So I'd just like to conclude by once again congratulating the NBRF Board for all they're doing for our community. Thank you very much. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you very much. Here, here. I'll put the motion. Those in favour? Against? Motion's carried. Thank you Mr Dick Barnes for coming today. Speaker 4: And may I thank the Council for allowing me to submit this report. And for having such a good discussion. Thank you. Thank you Mr Dick. Councillor Pardon: Mr Chair if I may.
02:20:00 Yes. Councillor Wilkie: Ladies and gentlemen, the next item will be the Koala Conservation Act. Mayor Wellington: And the next item will be a micturation break. Yes. Councillor Wilkie: After a five minute adjournment for a toilet break. Micturation. Because we have a paid consultant who's been waiting patiently. I've never micturated in my life. Mayor Wellington: You do it regularly I can assure you. Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you Dick. Thanks Dick. Thanks Matt. Thanks Matt. Thanks Matt. Thanks Matt. Thanks Matt.
02:28:00 All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I declare the meeting. The meeting reopened and we're at item three on the General Committee agenda, which is
02:29:00 the Koala Conservation Action Plan, which was referred from the Planning and Environment Committee agenda, page 74, and it was referred because of the significance of the issue. We have the Officer Peter Milne here and, of course, Director of Sustainable Development and Environment, Kim Rawlings, for questions, councillors, questions for staff. Councillor Jurisevic: Joe. Good floor. Lots of interesting stuff there. Thank you. Some real challenges for us going forward with regard to managing and ongoing monitoring of our own koala or, sorry, rather than just koala, really our fauna protection mechanisms, because it's more the koalas that will utilise this and . We had a question. I had two questions. Okay. Two questions that really came out of it. It mentions in the report on page, I've got to find it, what page, page four, IV, with regard
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02:30:00 to lighting. It says, most street lighting is provided along roads with built-up areas, particularly in the sections around Bounce. Rural roads have limited lighting. Additional lighting may be beneficial at extreme pinch point crossings or unfenced areas where multiple hits have been recorded. Is there any evidence that lighting may discourage animals? I mean, certain animals don't like lighting. Could lighting discourage them from crossing in places where they currently do cross? Councillor Jurisevic: And is lighting a good solution? That's more about visual drivers being able to observe. Yeah. So you're asking the question as to whether it would actually disperse fauna. Actually move them out of the way. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: It's probably a yes and no answer. I think for some species, it would.
02:31:00 But then for other species, they would actually be attracted to the light. More for the humans, the sea animals? Yeah. Yeah. That's the first. Councillor Jurisevic: So in that vein, are our roadside verges maintained to a sufficient width to allow sufficient vision of approaches of fauna to road network? Because that's not really something that's addressed in here. It is touched on. Is that something we need to look at? Councillor Jurisevic: That's true. I think it is, actually. So the consultants looked at road signs and obstruction to road signs from vegetation, that sort of thing. But they didn't look at light shed. So for example, down at Noosa Drive, where we have the roundabout, there's quite a large tree on the roundabout that's actually obscuring some of the lighting there. So that could be an example. Councillor Jurisevic: It is quite a dark approach to that roundabout as well, from all sides. Councillor Jurisevic: Yes. No, that's a good point. Councillor Jurisevic: Well, again, I'm thinking of McKinnon Drive. I'm thinking specifically of McKinnon Drive, where we've currently got the community putting out signage to warn of koalas and all the rest of it.
02:32:00 If lighting was increased there, would we see a movement of koalas or crossing there? So, I mean, it's okay. Question on notice. One of those things to think about. From the roadside clearing perspective, the reason we bring that up is because, you know, when the deer were a problem along Noosa-Cooroy Road, it was very, it was evident to me. Is this the question? The question I raised with TMR with regard to their regime. I mean, again, is the regime of clearing also another thing that we need to look at, particularly in those high-profile areas, or those high-crossing areas, so we're sure that we don't get six-foot-high grass or foot-height grass? Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, yeah. So the consultants have recommended that... Yeah. In some areas, there's more frequent slashing, so it could even be that some of that slashing is actually wider than carbon slashing. So frequency and frequency and width? Frequency and width. To allow a break, okay. But to a certain extent, though, because if we clear right into the fence line, then if
02:33:00 we do get caught on the roadway, there's no means of escape off the roadway. So we have to be careful not to over-clear. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, yeah. So it's got to be that right compromise, I would imagine. Further in the report, koala habitat mapping was rated as high and medium koala habitat value to identify high-quality poor habitat areas. I know we've specifically done this within the Noosa Shire and a couple of coves on the side of the Gympie and Sunshine Coast to incorporate the other council areas, but what about the state-managed roads? And specifically, going forward, you're looking at... Is it up to council? Or is it up to a managed approach with state and federal bodies to turn around and fund the type of fence that we're going to need around something that's currently... There's one project that's unfenced, for example, that I don't think this incorporates...
02:34:00 There's no costing in this report with regard to Ural and Ringtail Forest being fenced or managed with regard to... I don't know. I don't know. And once there's state roads, state forests, or national parks, whose responsibility is it to fund those visions? Councillor Jurisevic: So where it's not our land, our role is more of an advocacy role. So we can certainly encourage other agencies to look at, say, for example, what sort of infrastructure they need along their roadways, but technically, it's not our land. Councillor Jurisevic: But isn't that an opportunity to look at... In that advocacy, to look at joint funding arrangements where we do our section, they do their sections? Because you're going to protect one... And it says it here. I mean, you've got sections that are protected now, but next door, there's an opening. And down this side, there's an opening that'll let... We're not being as thorough as we could be.
02:35:00 So if we're... Are we wasting good money potentially doing this if we're not getting the other entities on board? Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. You're kind of right. We've got to look at it on a site-by-site basis, really. So in certain areas, there might be some benefit in actually doing a partnership approach between state government, say, for example, and ourselves. But in other areas, yeah, a lot of our hotspot areas are also in our local road network as well. So any funding there... If we do fund any particular works for those areas, obviously, that would be from council funding. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Wellington. Thank you. Mayor Wellington: A couple of questions, Pete. You refer to the data collected from the dog survey, the conservation... Detection of Dogs for Conservation Unit, Dr Celine's work with regard to analysis of genetic health and diversity of Noosa koalas. Do we have the results of that at this stage, that work?
02:36:00 Councillor Jurisevic: Only in terms of the koala absence presence. So there's two stages to that body of work. So it's firstly detection. If there's koala scats in the area. And then analysing. And then analysing the genetics. So we're not at the stage now where we actually have any conclusive results or accumulated data from the genetic analysis. Okay. Yeah. Mayor Wellington: Obviously, one of the problems with registers of sightings is that it can distort the view about where koalas are, because koalas are more likely to be seen where there's a lot of traffic and a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. So we've done some dog surveys. We're now considering supporting drone surveys with thermal imagery technology, which is the new trick. Councillor Wilkie: Yeah. Mayor Wellington: Is it possible through those two methodologies that we can actually get to a point where we know how many koalas there are in the Shire and where they are? Councillor Jurisevic: I think through the drone technology, that would give us a better overview of the actual
02:37:00 population, distribution and numbers across the Shire. So there's probably three research areas that we need. So we've got the koala presence happening right now, which is really valuable information for our koala habitat mapping. The second stage is to understand what the population sustainability is for those koalas. So we know... We've got a pretty good idea now where the koalas are across the Shire, but we don't know how we're faring in terms of their condition. We suspect... We suspect that they're on decline in the coastal areas, unfortunately, which is consistent with other coastal areas of eastern Australia. But we don't know what's going on out in the rural areas. So what would be great is to have a research study that actually looks at what the threats, what the risks are to koalas in our rural areas, because car strike is one threat. But some studies that have been done have demonstrated that wild dog control is actually a great...
02:38:00 Dog behavior study in Morton. Yeah. The chlamydia disease is also a greater risk to koalas, and surprisingly enough, carpet snakes as well. Yes. So if you're looking at... In that particular study that was done, they ranked the order of threats, and car strike, or vehicle strike, actually came about fourth or fifth down the line. So it's... We've got to be very careful of making assumptions that if we see a koala strike on the road, that that's the main threat to that population. It could be something a little different. Yeah. Mayor Wellington: Yeah. So I just... Before I hand over back to the chair, there's a sentence in the staff recommendation I just want to clear up, if I may. Point three says, investigate through the Traffic and Advisory Committee a speed limit reduction to 50 kPa along Noosa Drive to Wiber Bridge. Can I ask from where to Wiber Bridge? To Wiber Bridge can be in either direction, and I don't know where it starts.
02:39:00 Councillor Wilkie: Is it possible to... Mayor Wellington: Sure. From the Noosa Head side. Okay. From the Noosa Head. So we're saying from Noosa Junction to Wiber Bridge. Yeah. Noosa Junction to Wiber Bridge to Wiber Bridge. What's the roundabout at Pinaroo Park then? Say from Pinaroo Park to Wiber Bridge? Yeah. Between the two roundabouts. Yeah. Yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: From Pinaroo Park to Wiber Bridge. Yeah. Councillor Wilkie: In his presentation to Noosa Council, if I remember correctly, he stated that one individual dog was found to be responsible for killing 70 koalas.
02:40:00 A study cited in the O2 Ecology Infrastructure Order, that by Daniel Lunning, on the impact of firing dogs on koalas at Port Stephens, identified dogs as a major threat and listed reducing the number of koalas killed by dogs as the top short-term action. It also stated that fires and roads were obvious causes of mortality in Port Stephens, but they have been shown by that particular study to mask a more important cause of mortality, namely dogs. Comments by Australia Zoo's Wildlife Hospital suggested areas where wild dogs roam tend to have fewer people to spot and report injured or dead koalas. I note more work is identified as being needed to be done on identifying wild dog populations in koala habitat in Noosa Shire, as discovered through groundwork in other locations. Do you think there's a chance that lethal and non-lethal wild dog attacks on koalas and nooses in rural areas have been underreported?
02:41:00 And if so, what steps are going to be taken to give us a better understanding and addressing the issue? Councillor Jurisevic: Yes, I think that could be a real problem in rural areas. So we currently have a wild dog control program, but they're more targeted at agriculture. They're more targeted at agriculture. They're more targeted at the agricultural impacts, but noting that often wild dogs will use national parks or core protected areas or large bush areas as refuge areas for where they live and then they move into the agricultural areas. So there is some benefit from an existing wild dog control program in our rural areas to help with koalas by default. But I think, yeah, there's more work to be done in that space. And one of the actions in the plan is to actually re-look at how we're doing our wild dog control and actually seeing if we can better focus it towards those areas, those important koala habitat areas.
02:42:00 In terms of research on that, you know, we've got the environmental grants program coming up. I think that could probably be, you know, the sort of area that would be really handy is to get a better understanding of how much wild dogs are impacting on our area. Councillor Wilkie: And who would make that application, for example? Councillor Jurisevic: Just a koala interest group could do that. Councillor Jurisevic: Josh, which raises the question, we're doing koala tracking dogs and step tracking dogs and other type of... Is there an opportunity there to actually have a dog tracking wild dogs and actually identify where these dogs are coming from? They're coming from property. So, you know, getting out at night and things like that. Yeah. Exactly. It's worth it. Mayor Wellington: It's a good point. They're not always wild. Councillor Jurisevic: That's right. They're dogs that are getting out. I mean, is this an opportunity to look at perhaps looking at it from a...
02:43:00 With the blinkers off and not actually just tracking the koalas but tracking the dogs and identifying where the dogs are coming from and working with those land holes or even finding out where these dogs are being established and trying to combat the wild dog population as much as anything else. Councillor Jurisevic: They've got a... Dogs have got an amazing sense of smell. Yeah. Of course. So, they'd have no trouble tracking other dogs. That's what I mean. I mean... That's what I mean. Councillor Jurisevic: It just seems obvious to me that maybe we should be tracking the dogs. They don't put colours or... Councillor Jurisevic: You just take your dog down the beach and you'll see how much they track the other dogs anyway. So, yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. That's quite doable. So, in the wild, you'd be able to identify which dogs you need to track. Mayor Wellington: I wonder how many detection dogs you'd go through in that process, though, because wild dogs are pretty fierce when they come across a domestic dog. Councillor Jurisevic: Take... What's his name? Out with you. No problem. They wouldn't like it. Secondly, with the tracking that we've been doing with regard to that, have we identified how many... The koala population that we believe exists within those regions that we've been tracking?
02:44:00 Councillor Jurisevic: No. No. We have an evidence survey. So, it just means we know there's koalas here that've been utilising this habitat, but we don't know numbers. Councillor Jurisevic: So, we're looking to go that next step with DNA testing? I think... Drone technology. Scat that. We probably... Is there a scat DNA testing coming out? Yes. That's what we were talking about before. Councillor Jurisevic: Sut cares and pretestures... Yeah. That helps, but they're not there yet. OK. Yeah, but certainly drone technology as well, I think, would help determine population. Councillor Jurisevic: That leads to my third question, primarily tongue-in-cheek. We're going to run the risk of having Koala Kong sitting at the top of his tree, swatting off the drones that they've got. Thank you, Councillor Jurisevic. Councillor Jackson. Councillor Jackson: I have a question that may actually be of Kim Rawlings. It's relating to the relationship between koala mapping, which is Objective 24, I mean, for map and monitor local koala populations, and the koala overlay in the NISA plan. And I'm just wondering how often the koala overlay is reviewed and whether this work is in some way inputting to the koala overlay.
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02:45:00 I can answer that. Okay, back to you again. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, so each year when we get updates on data, we update the mapping. So it's an annual review. So the most recent koala mapping would have been 2017, so we'll be up for a review very shortly, actually. Thank you. Councillor Jackson: I would just like to... Councillor Jurisevic: There's also state mapping as well. Councillor Jackson: Yeah. Oh. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. So the... Input to the koala. The state mapping, what... Yes, sure. Through the chair, if I can just explain that. The state mapping has a... They use a certain methodology for mapping their koala habitat areas. We've used the same methodology. But because we've got local data, we've been able to add to that, that mapping. So we've increased our koala habitat mapped areas by about 10%. So that's an increase. We're... State's still looking at our mapping to see whether they can adopt it into their state
02:46:00 mapping. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Stockwell, you had a question. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Yeah, I have a couple of questions. One, when we looked, we were talking questions about the dogs and it's my understanding that wild dogs included feral dogs and dingoes. Is that correct? Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, they're both listed species under the Biosecurity Act. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Yeah, under the Biosecurity Act. But when we look at conservation, a dingo is a native animal. Yes. But we have to be very careful when we say we'll have all that wool on wild dogs, in that we're making the decision which particular native species is more important. Mayor Wellington: Well, but... All right. The bigger question... The bigger question is, are there any purebred dingoes liable to be in evidence in Noosa Shire? From talking to scientists previously, my understanding is that there wouldn't be any because they've all been bred with domestic dogs. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: That's all I've heard, but I don't know for sure. That was going to be my next... Oh, sorry.
02:47:00 Yeah. We do know there are dingoes, but whether they're pure. But we know Fraser Island, for example, is probably one of the last populations around here. The other question was, we've looked at a couple of the shortcomings of existing attempts at green infrastructure. Talking with Megan Helpsen from Queensland Koala Crusaders, she was promoting the concept that we should be doing more work to encourage crossings in safe locations via things like planting desirable fodder trees, which then overlap, and then you link them, say, with logs across near bridges. Are we doing any work to look at what might be some alternative options which encourage koalas away from the conflict zones where, like the Waibarae, Noosa Drive area around Leslie Drive there has historically been where most have been killed in the coast, from my memory? Are we doing any work there to say, well, there's probably a potential there to actually have a central median and create a canopy cover with some engineering support?
02:48:00 Councillor Jurisevic: It wasn't specifically addressed. It was addressed by the City Audit. I understand what you're saying. So having more training... Yeah, in terms of making a koala go on an underpath rather than over a path. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just something to think about. Yeah. Probably have to talk to our road crew and our parks crew about that because, of course, then they have maintenance issues along our roadways and there's also safety issues as well. But it's certainly, yeah, something we could consider. I mean, it's a little one across any of the crows in Issa Springs, is there an potential to put something beside the bridge that was koala friendly? Being mindful too, though, once you get koalas across, say, one busy roadway, then there's another bunch of roadways. So, you know, it's how far do you go with your works, yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: Joe? Yeah, I know we're specifically addressing koalas in this report and road bridges and the like aren't seated here, but there are other fauna like possums, Beckmans Road is one that I regularly see possums being killed on.
02:49:00 I mean, the opportunity to incorporate other mechanisms, like rope bridges and the like, for other entities that will use them, because I know possums do make use of them, incorporating those at the same stage. Is there any thought along those lines, looking at other species, not just koalas, when we were referring to these? I know some of those corridors are still in use. Mayor Wellington: We've got them for ring tail possums. They're called power lines. Yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: Not always across the range. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Anyway, that's one question. The second... I said I couldn't get an answer. The second question with regard... I didn't want an answer. I did, but you were dejected. The second question is, the fences and the maintenance of fences is obviously clearly a problem. Yeah. We haven't been dealt with.
02:50:00 Yeah. There's a budget here to... A budget request here, or an amount of money being put forward to implement new fences, but there's been no consideration here in the budget for maintenance of the existing fences, plus the existing fences. Councillor Jurisevic: Yes. Councillor Jurisevic: Is there any further report going to be put forward with regard to the maintenance and the maintenance needs of these things over time? Councillor Jurisevic: One of the reasons that they haven't been maintained is because they're not on our asset register. So that's one of the recommendations in the report to get them on the register. Councillor Jurisevic: Have we got all the assets listed now for putting on the register evidence? Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, we have through the audit. In terms of the funding, funding recommendation. Councillor Jurisevic: I've got a question now. Two and a half million dollars. What's the opportunities for State and Federal or other grant opportunities to help us fund that? Councillor Jurisevic: They're mostly focusing on the large scale protection and rehabilitation projects.
02:51:00 So that was one of the recommendations that came out of the question. One of the things that came out of the QALA task force was to look at those large core protected areas and also adding to those. A bit similar to what we do with our conservation land guideline, I guess. So I don't know if they would specifically put their priorities towards road infrastructure. I think they're more focused on habitat protection. Councillor Jurisevic: So my third question around funding is with Yorga Wingtail Forest coming online under our agreement going forward, and a lot of it being unfenced and the like. Within that project, have we looked at the fencing or the protection needs? Since we're talking about creating a QALA habitat through there? Councillor Jurisevic: Not specifically on... Councillor Jurisevic: Has that been considered in the funding arrangements going forward? We talked about rehabilitation of the forest and the like. What about the maintenance and protection of when they're in there so that we don't see them all run over when they're crossing the bloody road?
02:52:00 Speaker 8: I can probably answer that, Joe. I'll chair the transition committee on that. At this stage, we need to get to know, mainly because it's a 10-year project. We're only six months or four months into that. So we've actually got our next transition committee meeting next week. And we just started to look at what's the program over the next couple of years. So when are they going to be finishing harvesting? When are we going to get access? Things like that. Councillor Jurisevic: So we'd look at... Speaker 8: We'd actually need a rehabilitation plan. Councillor Jurisevic: We'd obviously have to do a rehab plan. We'd have to do a costing on what it would cost for almost getting an entity in to take a survey of what's there and what doesn't exist, what would be needed, and the costing going forward. Speaker 8: Yeah, look. The reality is most of those areas are going to be cleared. So there's not going to be much there at all to fence. It's only when the regrade comes in that you're going to have to start to look at that fencing. Councillor Jurisevic: I disagree with that. There's a lot of existing forest that is already in place that isn't fenced now.
02:53:00 Speaker 8: Yeah, but if you look at the major pine areas, they're going to get cleared out. That's what I'm talking about. Which has got most of that frontage to McKinnon Drive, for example. Councillor Jurisevic: That gives us a span of time, but the existing areas probably need to be addressed now. And some of them are. Some of them in the Pomona area are, particularly from the Bruce Highway side. Speaker 8: And you'd also have to look at gates and all that sort of stuff. Councillor Jurisevic: So it's something that we can look through with that committee. Yeah. Thank you. Councillor Jackson: I just got a question relating to Councillor Jurisevic's questioning. I'm reading over and over again the recommendations, and I don't see any commitment to funding there. Have I missed something? Are we actually being asked to at least fund something? Councillor Jurisevic: There's a section in the finance area. Sorry, I'm in the report. Councillor Jurisevic: We'll go back to the recommendations. Okay. Councillor Wilkie: So if it's on the asset register, it means it could crop up as part of the capital works budget. Councillor Jurisevic: No, that would be for maintenance.
02:54:00 So ... Councillor Jurisevic: The capital works are going to ... Asset maintenance. Councillor Jurisevic: So a recommendation would be to ... Page 94. Page 94. Is that where you're at? Councillor Jackson: Page 94. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. On the finance section, yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: Okay. That's a fast one. I'm short. 94. Yeah, there it is. Councillor Jurisevic: So yeah, the table five, the recommended capital works. But you're right. We don't have a recommendation up front. Speaker 8: Sorry, in B2 ... We don't have a recommendation up front. B2. Yeah. You refer the appropriate capital works ... Yeah. ... for consideration as part of the upcoming budget plan. Councillor Jackson: Yeah. Oh, okay. So it's not in the pool. No, it can't. It's referred ... No, it's referred ... Councillor Jurisevic: We've heard about it. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Knowing what you know now and what you've read in the report, do you think fencing is the way to go in the future?
02:55:00 Councillor Jurisevic: No, no I don't. Reason being you'd have to fence every road in the Shire practically. You'd have to create cages, you know, if you're fencing off cattle you only need one break in the fence and they're out. So I don't think it is a long-term solution. I think we need a Shire-wide solution and I think technology is probably the way to go. I think the issue is not the infrastructure, the issue is a fast-moving car. So we need technology that can go with the car basically to be a Shire-wide solution. Or dogs. Sorry? Councillor Wilkie: You were talking about a cause of mortality there. You said the issue is a fast-moving car. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, and wild dogs. Councillor Wilkie: Or wild dogs. Councillor Jurisevic: Oh yeah. Yeah, that's a bigger risk. But if we're just talking about roadways, then yeah, technology I think is the way to go. But overall, yeah, wild dogs is fine, yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: Sorry Peter, what sort of, the report specifically says that technology at the moment isn't effective. Some of these chemical or other mechanisms aren't effective. What sort of technology are you referring to when you think technology is the solution for the future?
02:56:00 Councillor Jurisevic: Okay, for cars, technology, we've been using thermal image cameras for many years. So some of the newer car models are actually rolling out with thermal cameras. And not just for koalas, obviously. Pick up koalas, but also a range of things, people. Mayor Wellington: Mine does. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah? Mayor Wellington: Oh, show off. So if a person walks in front of my car, it'll automatically break. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, you've got to be in a parking area saying, come on. Yeah, but it's the same technology. It's proximity. You're not going to see a koala or a kangaroo from 50 metres away when you're travelling half a kilometre away. There, there, rabbit. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Wellington, do you wish to speak to the motion? Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah, why not? Councillor Wilkie: What the heck? You can ask a question. Councillor Jurisevic: I'm still asking a question, yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: Oh, I think over time that technology is just going to get better and cheaper. Yeah. And maybe not so much.
02:57:00 Councillor Jurisevic: So in vehicle technology is the sort of thing? Councillor Jurisevic: Vehicle technology. But thermal cameras are the best way, because most of our fauna are nocturnal. So they're moving between dusk and dawn. So that's the time. Thermal cameras can pick up images way ahead of your headlights. Councillor Jurisevic: So then have a sign that comes up and say wildlife ahead. Take caution that sort of a solar operated sign, like the ADK sign, but activated by the thermal camera. Councillor Jurisevic: Yep. So that you can put in alerts. You can have docking stations. You can have docking stations for your iPhone, that sort of thing. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: So it'll alert the driver. It's in the car, not on the road. Councillor Jurisevic: Okay. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Yeah. It'll make ice by on the holiday trips quite easy. Yeah. Okay. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor, Councillor Wellington. Mayor Wellington: Look, yeah, I just want to congratulate Peter on what's a good thorough report. I think he's done a fantastic job and he's across so many different aspects of this issue. You know, there's a lot of assumptions that are made by the community about how we can look after our koala population, but they're often based on presumption rather than accurate data.
02:58:00 For example, we know that koala signs generally get overlooked after a period of time. They just become part of the scenery and they have very little impact. We could go to flashing signs, but then we're talking about so many of them and at such great expense. I'm not sure that the expense would warrant the impact. Exclusion fencing can also be inclusion fencing and trap animals in road reserves. So it can be as much a problem as a benefit. Vehicle speed limits are not an easy thing to control and simply asking people to slow down for wildlife doesn't work. I'd be very surprised if anywhere reducing speed limits has necessarily resulted in significant changes of driver behaviour to reduce impact. Yeah. Incidents of wildlife being hit by cars. And then we have to deal with community expectations about whether they want to be driving everywhere at 40 kilometres per hour.
02:59:00 So it's a difficult issue. I think that this report and our staff approach takes a sensible approach. We do need to have a good basis for spending. There is consideration in the report of spending that will come up through the forthcoming budget. And beyond that, we do need to make sure that we're not spending millions of dollars on supposed remedies that aren't actually remedies. So we do have to be fairly careful about where we spend the money. But again, I'd just like to mention, too, while I'm at it, that at the Premier's soiree last Monday, the Minister for Environment, Leanne Enoch, made a beeline for me and wanted to talk about the year old ring tail and how excited she still is about it and its propensity for protecting koalas locally. I also approached Stephen Miles and thanked him for his role before when he was Minister for Environment.
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03:00:00 And he laughingly said, yes, the shame of it is that I didn't get the credit for anything because I'd left the portfolio by the time. Councillor Jurisevic: He's got the new poison cellar. Mayor Wellington: Yeah, that's right. He's got health now, poor fella. But the important thing is that this project, I think that it's been undersolved in some ways. It is a huge and very significant project for Queensland as a state and for South East Queensland. In terms of environment protection, plus koala protection. I think that's fantastic. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Barton. Councillor Pardon: Yeah, I endorse those comments. Yeah, it was interesting that study that you alluded to, Chair. The dog took, one dog, I think a single dog took about 70 out and the snakes took about 30 out. It was rather surprising that study and cars were well down the list. And it's good. We already have. Coming before us three times a year per year slashing. Of course, this mainly talks about the hinterland. But, you know, we'll see where we end up there.
03:01:00 Dogs. Yes. Well, we've got 10,000 registered dogs in Noosa Shire, which is a lot of dogs. And, you know, the wild ones, I'd try them and then I'd shoot them under rule 303 and remove most of them. I actually had technology written here before that was mentioned, because quite rightly signs become blasé, unless we can get some sort of smarter thing happening there. But as the Mayor said, do we want flashing signs or illuminated signs all over the Shire? I think not. But certainly some of the technology that's coming into the cars, etc., going forward. And drone technology, of course. Everyone knows I'm bigger on drones, but I mainly want to equip them with missiles when the Chinese come. But anyway, that's a different form of use. But I think going forward, we've discussed certainly encapsulation of your like or entrapment of a koala population on the coast.
03:02:00 And then we've built around them, you know, whether it's a noose. The heads, when we did previous studies of koalas here, the food trees are not really not very nutrient, especially noose heads, etc. And that's why they seem to suffer a bit from disease. They're very low nutrient. How many we have here in the urban area, I don't know. I suspect not a lot these days. And as has been pointed out, people see them because there's people everywhere. In the old days, when I used to help Joe Brown, we'd capture the odd one in Hastings Street and take it to Mark Powell, the vet, and he would inoculate the inevitably had disease, chlamydia and that. Most of them that we captured, it had almost in the big picture, what we thought was to get them, get them the hell out of suburbia and those big picture things like we're doing, you know, the Ringtail Forest, Ural Forest, etc.
03:03:00 I think that's that's the way to go, keep improving their lot in the hinterland as as for the roads. Yeah, well, fencing has already been stated the sheer cost of that and then, you know, benefits, cost benefits on that would be I don't think that stack up, but certainly it's a great report. I'll be interesting when we get the numbers. I think that's the key here. Once we know how many we got and then are we increasing on the up and I would suspect with things like Ural Forest and some of our conservation land, et cetera, I'd have the feeling in the hinterland we could be on the increase.
03:04:00 But it'll be interesting when we get the numbers and actually know. So it's interesting going forward. Thank you, Councillor Jess. Councillor Jackson: Yeah, I might just add one more. Yeah, I might just add one more. I think to all the and thank you very much, Peter, for what the work that you've produced. I also would like to thank you for the Koala Conservation Action Plan update because we did approve that action plan, I believe, in 2016. And it's really valuable to get updates and know what things are up to and in fact to see quite a few green lights in that list. So, yeah, thank you very much for that. Councillor Wilkie: Yeah. Peter, I too would like to comment on the Koala Action Plan update. It's very pleasing of the 30 initiatives on that, including the purchase and protection of an extra 2,543 hectares of koala habitat. Twenty six of those initiatives have either been commenced or completed.
03:05:00 It's very pleasing. And four, including projects aimed at identifying wild dog locations in priority koala habitat areas have yet to start and work needs to be done to gain funding and hopefully some work can be done in that area. It's also good to see the upkeep and installation of koala protection infrastructure is going to be programmed in a more systematic way. It's ironic that we're doing our utmost to preserve our existing koala population when down in Victoria they have an overpopulation crisis that saw almost 700 culled in recent years. And if I can just finish by asking a general question, surely has it for lay people? Can you explain? Why there hasn't been work done about relocating koalas, or the difficulties with relocating areas from an overpopulated area to other areas in Australia where they're really crying out for? Councillor Jurisevic: Genetically, they're quite different to up here. So they've got a bigger koala, heavier coat, not really suited to our local conditions.
03:06:00 Koalas also are very particular about their features. So the question as to how well they'll survive up here, yeah, they may not survive up here. Councillor Wilkie: But it's been worked out in that regard? Councillor Jurisevic: It's been talked about for a while, and the Queensland State Government has yet to have a position on translocation of koalas. In the past, if there's been any translocation, it's been very localised so that the koalas utilise their local food source. But obviously the vegetation down south is very different to what we have up here. So it's questionable actually as to whether they'll survive. So it's questionable actually as to whether they'll survive up here. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. Councillor Jurisevic: Councillor Stockwell. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Yes, President. I think I always like to focus on ecosystem conservation rather than species conservation. And while the koala is a very useful species to generate community understanding, that the broader issues of our conservation of our youth that dominated communities
03:07:00 and having large scale connectivity across the landscape. We mentioned the concept of translocation and there is a school of thought in Noosa that most of the coastal ones were a result of a translocated population brought into the Noosa National Park. So I think it's important that, you know, I support your recommendation. I do think we could spend a lot of time and money on making roads and crossing safer. But if we have to go back and remember what is the goal of our koala action plan, and if it's about conservation of the maximum number of koalas in their habitat for the minimum amount of cost, then we do focus elsewhere. We focus on protecting areas and removing the other threats that broad scale conservation can achieve. Because as we know, I think koalas can pop up anywhere. Councillor Wilkie: Oh, my God. Is use of props permitted? That's your Councillor Stockwell. Any other councillors wish to talk?
03:08:00 Councillor Jurisevic: Councillor Jurisevic. I just have two cents worth for that. I mean, I concur with Councillor Stockwell's view with regard to diversification between these areas of species but also the plant and the animals. Which tends to help preserve these. And we spoke about earlier in the talk about Sunrise Beach, with regard to how one species dominates when you start interfering in there and some of those other threatened species may be lost. So, I mean, there's other critical elements in there. So I congratulate you and the ATO group on the report. I think there's some great learnings to be had from this report, some important opportunities going forward with regard to preserving not only our koala population, but all of our native animal species for the future. I do concur that some of the technology is well worth considering.
03:09:00 Signs, as freestanding signs, don't work. But perhaps signs that only come on at when an animal is there may be more likely to inspire a, someone to actually slow down. So it's certainly, you know, a bit like the ADK speed limit signs. When you go past at greater than ADKs, it alerts you and makes the driver alert. Whereas these signs become, you know, everyday signs become complacent over time. Or only appearing at, you know, at times of high koala movement, at the breeding times. I think that occurs in the Redland Shire from memory. They actually do have signs that light up at night to remind people that they're on a major thoroughfare. That where koalas cross and frequently cross. And it's, having lived in the Brisbane area and been around that Redland Shire many, many years ago, saw a lot of progress happening there as we go to try and preserve vehicle koala numbers. Because they would really leave faster than you could believe from motor vehicle strikes as much as anything else.
03:10:00 Yeah, so I think there's some good information in here. Some good consideration for council with regard to budgets going forward. And I look forward to seeing a bit of maintenance regime put in on these assets when we do have all the assets into our register. Because that clearly is something that we haven't been doing for a long time. So well done for picking that up. Councillor Glasgow: No, as someone said, great job, Pete. Really, really good job. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. Councillor Wellington, do you wish to close? Mayor Wellington: Oh, very briefly. It's been raised that the Noosa Heads cohort of koalas were introduced. That's true. Dr Arthur Harold arranged for half a dozen to be introduced there from Bribie Island some decades ago. But in theory, they have intermingled now with the Weyba cohort. And so hopefully the genetic viability of those animals is not too compromised. It remains to be seen, however. Look, I just want to point out the big picture because Councillor Wilkie talked about Victoria and elsewhere.
03:11:00 Nationally, koalas are not endangered. In fact, they're overabundant in some places. And they're actually in places where they never were historically. For example, the Adelaide Hills, Kangaroo Island, etc. They were never in those places. The ones in Victoria are largely bred on two islands and reintroduced into Victoria and are doing very well. But the problem is there is a problem with genetic diversity in Victoria. And some of them appear to be suffering from that lack of genetic diversity. Nevertheless, they can't be translocated because they're quite different, the northern koalas from the southern ones. But in my discussions with koala experts and Australia Zoo Animal Hospital, there is a real problem with trying to translocate them. Everyone thinks you can just move them around, but it doesn't work like that. The males stress if they're over five years old, they almost inevitably try and find their way back to their original territory. And that means they tend to get into trouble. You can't just move animals around without concerns about spreading pathogens.
03:12:00 There's also different nutrient loads if they're on the coast versus in the hinterland and simply moving them between one the other can be less than beneficial to them in terms of those nutrient loads that they're used to. So there's a whole lot of problems around it. And as I say, one of the one of the issues we face is assumptions that are made in the community about what we should be doing. But those assumptions are not always made on reasonable research and good evidence. And I once again thank the staff for operating in that regard, looking to the best evidence available in order to inform how we should be investing our time and money. Thanks. Councillor Wilkie: Put the motion those in favour? Against? Motion's carried. Thank you, Mr. Mellman. Speaker 1: Thank you for our gallery guests who have been very patient today with this large agenda. Councillor Wilkie: We now have item four, procurement outcome.
03:13:00 The Fishing Futures Consultancy. Thank you, Mr. Parkman. This is referred from the Planning and Environment Committee Agenda, page 110, referred due to the significance of the issue. Speaker 8: Oh, thanks. And councillors, Craig, who wrote the original report on holidays. Oh, thank you. Speaker 6: Thank you. Councillor Jackson: I'm not sure which of you will answer, so it's up to you. I think perhaps Kim, some of these are your questions, but Council agreed in a motion in December 2018 that a report of outcomes of the procurement process would come to Council, and then the consultancy seems to have been selected on the 4th of January, and the consultant has already presented to us and given us an interim report. So I'm just wondering why is it that this report requested in December has only just appeared now in March?
03:14:00 Speaker 5: Probably the earliest we could have got this report to Council was last month, February. Given the process that we went through and the assessment panel process, we wouldn't have met the January time frame. We probably could have got this report to February, but given that it wasn't a decision, it was a requirement to come back to Council before we appoint the tender, it was a report on the outcomes of the process, there didn't seem to be any urgency around bringing that forward. There's no particular reason as to why it didn't. It could have come possibly last month, but that probably would have been the earliest it could have come. Okay. Councillor Jackson: Another question, and I think Kim it is of yourself, the consultant who is working on this project made a presentation to councillors in November. Why was the expression of interest only decided to be carried out as a request of council
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03:15:00 in December? Speaker 5: The presentation to council in November was as a result of considering a range of issues that came from the consultation of the Draft River Plan. One of those issues, there's a number that came from the consultation on the Draft River Plan. One of those is whether I guess the Draft River Plan or the River Plan had enough information in it about council's perspective and position on sustainable fisheries in the river and beyond. At that time, council I guess felt we didn't have enough information to fully have a position on what sustainable management of fisheries should be for the Noosa River, and therefore felt that we needed to commission some work, an evidence-based research piece to round out our understanding of the whole issue of sustainable fisheries management, both commercial
03:16:00 and recreation fisheries in the context of Noosa River, to help input the finalisation of the Draft River Plan. So ... Councillor Jackson: But I believe though that you had that intent in the presentation in November. Speaker 5: Well, the intention in November was to increase council's understanding of the Draft River Plan and the understanding of fisheries. Both Craig and I had said we didn't have a lot of information about commercial fisheries in the river, and that we needed external support on that, so that presentation was to draw on some external support. From that presentation, we decided to move into doing more research, which eventually meant we drafted up a brief to outline the development of an evidence-based research piece. It was a brief to outline the development of an evidence-based research paper, and a range of management options that needed to be ... had a cost-benefit analysis to be undertaken, and that's underway at the moment.
03:17:00 Speaker 8: Sorry, and just to add to that, the only other thing that was in addition to that was the council's decision between December to go down that path. Councillor Jackson: To go ahead and then have the report. According to ... I've done some research on ASIC, and also for websites, but the company that the report here tells us has been hired, called Fresh Advisory, is not a company in ASIC, although it's a name, and it also doesn't have its own website, so can you explain that? Speaker 3: They've got a registered ABN, and they are, as you say, a company trading as Fresh Advisory, so they do have a company ... Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Trading as. Mm-hmm. So that information was checked as part of the ... Councillor Jackson: The process. Speaker 3: The process. Councillor Jackson: Checked that. Speaker 3: Yes. Councillor Jackson: In ASIC, I found that the company, Fresh Advisory, is actually Bernie Ripple's company,
03:18:00 Ripney Pty Ltd., trading as advisory. That's correct. And advisory fresh. And that Bernie Ripple is an ex-Labor Party MP who is the director of that company. And I found that, by doing a bit of Googling, discovered that Bernie Ripple's company, Ripney Pty Ltd., is listed on lobbyist registers, both in state governments, several state governments, as well as the federal government lobbyist registers. So is Ripney Pty Ltd. really a lobbyist firm? Speaker 5: I'm not sure. I'd be to tell you. I'd be to take that on notice and do a little bit more looking into that. The business we have appointed is Fresh Advisory. We have a contract with Fresh Advisory. They are a business ...
03:19:00 Entity. Entity. And the expertise that came with that consultancy met all the requirements of our information request to quote. So yeah. We're working directly with Fresh Advisory and the personnel that make up Fresh Advisory. Councillor Jackson: So Fresh Advisory cannot be an entity because it's not listed as a company. It's only Ripney that's the company. So in this case, one of the things that I was disappointed in your report, it didn't have the selection criteria, but I appreciate that Craig Doolin, when I asked for the selection criteria after this report came out, has circulated. The selection criteria. One of the specific requirements of the contract is stated as undertake a technical and scientific analysis. In what way does Fresh Advisory offer technical and scientific skills?
03:20:00 Speaker 5: I'm not exactly sure which clause you're talking to in the contract, but ... It just says that the ... In the criteria ... Councillor Jackson: Specific requirements include undertaking a technical and scientific analysis, including impacts and benefits of other sustainable fisheries management initiatives. Speaker 3: So that would be part of the methodology that they would undertake as part of the evaluation criteria. And Craig and the evaluation team would have looked at that to determine their capability and their methodology. And would have made a decision based on that information that was provided. Councillor Jackson: So does ... Is there some evidence that Fresh Advisory has technical and scientific analysis skills? Speaker 8: I think what Phil's saying is that the assessment panel has assessed them as having it.
03:21:00 Councillor Jackson: Having it. I just wonder about it, because I have researched the particular person whose name is Winston Harris, who's doing the assessment. I think that's the person who's doing the work. And his career appears to have been largely advising Labour Party MPs. He's worked as a CEO of a industry association, which is really an advocacy association. And he's working as a senior consultant for SAS Group, which is a public relations company. So I'm wondering where this scientific and technical skill is showing in his background. Point of order. Yes. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Councillor Jackson is asking a number of questions, as did in the Planning Environment Committee. I think they're identical questions. The report's about the outcome. It's not about re-litigating the process, which is quite clearly devolved to staff that they made the decision. The questions are trying to drill down in detail into a decision being made.
03:22:00 Not about the report, about the outcome. The outcome is clear. A consultant was appointed that staff felt had the appropriate qualifications, that meeting the criteria. And any further questioning of a commercial nature is, I think, inappropriate in this committee. Councillor Wilkie: Fair point, Councillor Stockwell. I, too, don't see the point of drilling down like this into the decision that had been made, the criteria. Councillor Jackson, you could satisfy yourself perhaps in meeting the staff afterwards and sitting down and going through the criteria. If you wish. But this work is already well underway. Please, could you meet the staff and satisfy yourself with any questions? I don't see any point in continuing that in this forum. Councillor Jackson: Okay. I do have one more question, which is that when these consultants, including Bernie Rippoll,
03:23:00 came to present to our councillors a couple of weeks ago, they said that they were going to work with Nick Heath. There was also another person present, and we were told that person was also engaged as a consultant. His name is Nick Heath. I'm not clear if Nick Heath is working through Fresh Advisory or whether that's a separate consultancy. Speaker 5: Nick Heath was going to partly your previous question and this question. Nick Heath has been providing some advice to officers. On a range of issues around the current state fisheries reform, Nick Heath is very involved in the current state fisheries reform. He's also very involved in a range of community organisations. He's great expertise that we have locally.
03:24:00 Not unlike Dick Barnes and a range of other people who are involved in community groups. Nick's on the Tourism Noosa board. Often many people are having a hard time. We're happy to engage with council officers to provide their advice and Nick's been doing that for us in terms of helping us understand the timing of the current state fisheries reform. One of the outcomes of this piece of work was to help council have a strong evidence base around sustainable fisheries management and form clear positions and directions on whether or not it wanted to have input into the state fisheries reform. There is a clear timeframe around that. We've been told that we need to provide input by the end of April, early May and given Nick's close involvement in that process, he's been able to help officers understand that process more fully.
03:25:00 So he is a paid consultant? No, he's not a paid consultant. Councillor Jackson: Oh, so when he was in the room with somebody, one of you said he was a consultant. He's not a paid consultant. Speaker 5: No, he's not a paid consultant. He was in attendance. That's right. He's been providing input. Oh, okay. Councillor Jurisevic: A referral agent would be a fair term. Speaker 5: Oh, an expert in the space. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: A volunteer advisor. A volunteer advisor. Councillor Pardon: Councillor Pardon's been waiting patiently. Yeah, Mr Chair, just a question through you. So I understand Winston, former CEO of the Queensland Commercial Fisheries Association. Speaker 5: That's correct. Councillor Pardon: Former CEO. Yeah. Speaker 5: Yeah. Part of the... We did go out to three consultancies in this space. It was... You recall that both Craig and I advised Council that this is a very specialised area and it wasn't that easy to find people who had the expertise in this area. We were able to find three companies that did and what Fresh Advisory bought specifically
03:26:00 was that commercial experience around commercial fisheries which we didn't have internally so it was necessary to access that externally. Unfortunately, the other companies, for whatever reasons, were unable to tender into the process. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Stockwell. I'm moving the motion. I'll second it. A seconder, Councillor Parkin. Councillor Stockwell is to speak. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Yes, I do. I'm very pleased with the professional way in which staff have handled this matter. I think the choice of... The fact that we had one consultant who can... One... A successful consultant who has... He's got eminent qualifications to do it. As has been mentioned, a previous head of the Queensland Seafood Industry Association and industry associations do provide an advocacy role but also in my previous roles are actively involved in the science of fisheries as well and have a great capacity.
03:27:00 In fact, Nick Heath has also been a previous head of the Queensland Seafood Industry Association. It should be remembered that when people do provide lobbying roles, that doesn't have to be their only role, that we every month receive, nearly every month, received applications from previous councillor, RG Strategic, who, in a planning capacity, but he also has a lobbying... He is also a registered lobbyist and we don't raise these sort of issues there, so we shouldn't be raising them in this case. Although, in this case, it may be more justified with people because what we're seeking is... We're seeking... We're seeking advice about how to lobby the state government. We're seeking advice about what's our best method to achieve outcomes for this river and I think we've got very good people set up to do it and I think it's a process, as the procurement staff have outlined, that have followed all due process and we can be thankful that we do have staff that have managed to get this work done so quickly after the
03:28:00 December resolution over the Christmas period to achieve the outcomes that we've been looking Councillor Pardon: Mr Chairman, I don't think we could have done any better with regards to the skills here. We have the insiders, we have the people from that commercial side looking from our side, trying to protect the fish, the resource, reduce some of the effort on the fish and the pressure. It's actually a great fit. And have lobbyists. I mean, you know, we do have a Labour Party government, and if these people are connected through the government, there's a former member there. I didn't know that Bernie was a former member. I'm not that close to him all.
03:29:00 But for me, this is a great role. I don't see how you could do much better than to have those advocates for us. And absolutely, we were time poor. And as for Nick Heath, Nick sort of gave us a heads up with regards to the fishing and the timing, etc. They said, you know, you better get cracking if you want to get into the game here, because the Queensland government is looking at things like lifting quotas, et cetera, off the mullet. I mean, this could be an environmental disaster for our area here, whether it's river or beach. So, you know, those guys, it's just terrific, the outcome. And I'm extremely happy. And thanks to staff. Yeah, good work. We'll get on with it. Okay. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Jurisevic. Councillor Jurisevic: I'm interested in the... Yeah. Some of the questions regarding the entity that has been the successful consultancy.
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03:30:00 But it's clear that through the people they're employing, they are targeting people with the necessary skill sets and the like, and the experience from their previous involvement in the fishing industry to the information that's being gathered and employed. It may not be that the director of the company, or the owner of the company, or the individual himself is providing all of the expert advice, but he's utilising experience and expertise that he has at his disposal to provide those sort of reports. And I assume that's what's occurring here. And again, I concur with the comments of the other councillors regarding the process. It's gone through a due process. Staff, the WICRA staff, have done their due diligence with regard to checking the bona fides of any entity that wins a procurement process.
03:31:00 So, I'm assured by staff's assurance, they've done their due diligence. Councillor Wilkie: Yeah. Yeah, look, I'd just like to say that the work that Fresh Advisory has already done is already providing valuable data, the types of fishing taking place within the Noosa Shire, the extent of the effort, the volumes of species being caught, the types of licences and gear being used, when and where they're being used, what sort of fish are being caught, where they're being caught, where they're being caught, how much of the catch is being sent, how much of the catch is being used by local restaurants and retail outlets, and factors affecting fisheries reform. It's invaluable information that will inform this council and enable it to make fact and evidence-based decisions on the long-term sustainability of the Noosa River, as actioned through the Noosa River Plan, and submissions to the state government on the future of fisheries process, which this council needs to understand to have input into. As stated in the council report, the procurement process was conducted according to council's procurement policy, I commend the staff and the choice so far of the consultancy,
03:32:00 which has been delivering excellent information that has taken consideration of this issue beyond the exchange of anecdotes. For the first time ever, some useful and up-to-date facts are being provided as to the fishing effort in the community's waterways and beaches. The real value and focus of this report and consultancy for the community lies in the excellent data and how this council uses it for the long-term future of the river and the beaches, and I commend the staff for their efficient and expeditious actions on this matter. Question, councillor? Councillor Jurisevic: Sorry, I meant to put this in the body of what I said, but I'll ask it in the form of a question. Speaker 7: Do we know if... You're giving yourself away. Councillor Jurisevic: This is not a real question. Do we know if the consultant is consulting with the local fishing industry with regards to their input into the process? Thank you, that's all. Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely. The consultant is. You may recall that the interim findings that were discussed with council recently outlined a range of stakeholder meetings, and subsequent to that, they're doing another round of engagement,
03:33:00 specifically with the commercial fishing industry. Councillor Jurisevic: And I've provided information in that regard. You have. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Jackson: Councillor Chelsea. Yeah, I might just finalise. Thank you for responding to my questions. I guess, in every way, as a councillor, I'm always seeking for competitive procedures for selection when we're using ratepayers' money, in this case, 50,000, to develop a report. And I brought this issue up in December, in fact, originally discussing whether perhaps I would be asking for the decision to be made by council. But in fact, there was such an urgency to continue it that I was willing to say, well, OK, just come back with the results, because you always seem to get on with it. But I do think it's extremely important to go through a competitive process. There didn't seem to be enough time. And perhaps it should have been done earlier to look for expression of interest.
03:34:00 But the I think it's interesting to hear both councillors Stockwell and councillor Pardon refer to the benefit of having people who are connected to the local government and, in this case, one who's been an MP and the other one who's been an adviser to MPs, as well as the chief of staff, Bernie Whitney. Repaul. Repaul. Yeah, Repaul. So, you know, in a sense, what both Brian and councillor Stockwell and councillor Pardon have said is they may well be playing a useful lobbying role, but I don't see that being that listed in the selection criteria. So I'm a bit confused about whether this is really the intent. Again, I have not seen evidence of scientific background amongst any of the people.
03:35:00 So I look forward to having a chat with you offline about about that background. And yeah. So thank you very much. Thanks. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Wellington. Mayor Wellington: Yeah. Let's just put it on the record that I'm a member of the local government. I actually have a number of registered business names. I'm not sure they come up on an ASIC file. I'm local colour, trading as Tony Wellington designs, et cetera. I maintain, I spend my $50 or whatever each year to maintain the business names, but I'm pretty sure they won't come up on an ASIC register. If you go and try and register those names, you will find out that you can't. Look, there is some urgency around this. There was urgency. Councillor Jackson has just identified that because we received information as councillor Pardon identified from a certain source who is working on one of the committees around fisheries reform with the state government, that we needed to get our house in order pretty fast if we were going to influence the outcome.
03:36:00 And so we went searching in a hurry to get the right people. Winston Harris has industry experience. He was willing and available, and he's putting in a massive amount of work in a short space of time. Bernie Ripple has excellent colleagues. He's got contacts at all levels of the state government. And this is very useful. I want to point out that it's not a lobbying role, that usefulness. That usefulness is in being able to gather information that we need to work out how best to approach this issue with the state. So the simple fact that they have entree with the state government doesn't mean we're using them to lobby. The fact that they're registered as lobbyists has nothing to do with it. We've engaged them so that they can bring information back to us. And their familiarity with the appropriate place in the state government facilitates that process. So we need advice on not just what we're going to put to the state government with respect to fisheries reform, but also on the appropriateness and the timing of that.
03:37:00 And that's the information we're getting. I, in fact, met with Winston on the weekend, and straight after me, he was going and meeting with a number of the fishing families. And he's met with many of them already. And he's talked to Davos. He's talked to everyone. He's doing a fantastic job. And I believe that part of the outcome of all of this might be setting up some sort of local fisheries reform consideration group that will involve commercial and recreational fishers and environment groups, et cetera. Anyway, that remains to be seen, but certainly Winston was talking in that fashion at this stage. He's coming up with all sorts of really fascinating results. For example, he discovered that in the Noosa Lake, which is the largest fishing lake in the state, you can have 1.5 kilometres of fish netting. Whereas elsewhere in the state, it's 800 metres. So twice as much in the Noosa Lakes. It's an anomaly. There are issues about the mesh sizes and the bycatch, and there's a whole lot of information
03:38:00 that he's digging up that is going to be absolutely essential. And he's a man who understands this stuff because he once represented the fishing industry. I just want to point out that last week I had discussions with the Minister for Fisheries, and a number of his bureaucrats specifically about warning them that this information was coming to them. They're all aware of Bernie and Winston's work. Most of the bureaucrats have been discussing it with Winston already to find out what he's doing. The Minister said he was very keen to get the information that Winston uncovers because they're not across at all, quite simply. And he's going to gather together information in a form that they're simply not aware of in terms of amassing all the different... I don't know. Elements and levels that are required to make appropriate decisions with regard to progressing fishing reform for the Noosa River and improving biodiversity here. I want to say also that the Minister, and also, and I spoke to some of his bureaucrats
03:39:00 on the phone last week, are all incredibly complimentary to Noosa Council on two counts. One, on choosing Bernie and Winston, who they respect and therefore trust that they're going to provide us with the right information. And on a bigger scale, they want to congratulate, and this is a great opportunity to do it. The Minister said, please go back and congratulate your Council on all the work it's doing with regard to the Noosa River and biodiversity in the river. You're really cutting edge and setting a leading example for local governments everywhere in that regard. So it's a good place to end. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you, Councillor Wollingham. Councillor Stockwell, are you all closed? No. Oh, Jess, I beg your pardon. Councillor Glasgow: I just wanted to say it was great to hear that, and the same in the community, that our friend Winston was out there talking to the not-so-easy talkable local fishermen. We all know that they're very, got their own opinions on it. And it's great that this report's going to be a showstopper. And I just talked to my old colleague here, if Winston works with Winston the Wormer,
03:40:00 it'll be a report that would, you know, showstopper. Councillor Jurisevic: I was going to ask Councillor Parker, they're not the same Winston, are they? No. Councillor Pardon: Thank you, Jess. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: And I spoke to the Premier as well. Councillor Wilkie: Okay. Councillor Stockwell, Mr Collins. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: I will briefly. I think the majority of Councillors, I believe, have seen this in the right light. I do know there is discussion in the community and on social media there's even a suggestion that Council has been as slippery as Noosa Council has been on the issue, and that, certainly, I do object to that, and I do object to the inference and innuendo being used. Mayor Wellington: Point of order, Mr Chair. In a reply, you can't raise new material. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: I'm not raising new issues. I'm saying that these concerns have been raised in the public and repeated here today based on casting aspersions about the manner, I think by inference and innuendo, of the procurement process.
03:41:00 And I think it's important that this doesn't become a situation where councillors use the process of calling for a report on the outcomes of a procurement to then go and re-litigate that procurement process. And I think it's important that we have been proven by our response that this is up above board. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Stauffer, I think we've referenced this. Our response to our external material is actually new information. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: It could be. Councillor Wilkie: You can comment on the comments made about the procurement process. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Sure. And that's all I want to say. I think it's important. I think all speakers have suggested what is important about this, and I think the Mayor actually probably did the most appropriate summing up of the issues. Councillor Wilkie: I put the motion those in favour. Against? The motion is carried. Thank you, Phillip.
03:42:00 Thank you, councillors. Thank you, colleagues. Councillor Jackson: Thank you. Mr. Parksman. Councillor Wilkie: Mr. Parksman. Thank you, all of us. We go to item 6, which is the proposed expression of interest for community activation of the top floor of the Peregian Beach Beach Surf Club. Item 6, referred from the Services and Organisation Committee agenda. Page 9, for significance of the issue. Welcome, Dennis and Michael. That's page 9 in the Services and Organisation Committee agenda. Mayor Wellington: Okay, I'm going to begin by moving a motion that's somewhat different to the staff recommendation. It has been passed around before, but in case anyone hasn't seen it. Councillor Jackson: Is that the one the staff has passed around? Mayor Wellington: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's no different to the one that was distributed on the weekend.
03:43:00 Speaker 8: Can I suggest you read it out? Yeah. Again, for the reason that people watching from home may not be able to read that. Okay. But we'll get the move up. Mayor Wellington: I've got to change glasses for that. So, the motion that I'm moving is that council note the report by the property advisor to the Services and Organisation Committee meeting dated 12th of March 2019, regarding the Peregian Beach Beach Surf Club building and A, agreed to proceed to an expression of interest EOI process to identify a local community group to offer a permit to occupy for level 1 of the building as detailed in the report. And this is the new section. B, note that the EOI process will allow council to consider appropriate available options for this facility and does not commit council to entering into any future permits without a further decision by council. And C, note the recent correspondence direct to councillors from the Acting Chief Executive Officer of Surf Life Saving Queensland, SLSQ, seeking full use of the building and request
03:44:00 that staff formally invite SLSQ to submit a proposal for commissioning the building for community activation of level 1 of the building to allow consideration as part of the proposed EOI process. Councillor Jackson: Okay. Well, I have some questions. Okay. I have a question. Okay. Question. In the ordinary meeting minutes of the 23rd of October 2014, before my time, the council decided... agreed to authorize the CEO to enter into negotiations for a 20-year lease to the Noosa Hills Life Saving Club. Life Saving Club. Surf Life Saving Club. Overlot 165. And I'm wondering what happened. Why hasn't that happened? Councillor Wilkie: How much time do you have? Stop. Speaker 7: I think we're all away.
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03:45:00 There was a... A week or two ago. We've been on a long journey regarding the proposal to relocate the club and that's pretty much the answer. That's why there's no lease entered into with Noosa Hills because there was an appetite for tenure at that facility in its current location. Councillor Jackson: In September 2018, Noosa Council put out a media release and it said, an agreement has been reached between Noosa Council, Surf Life Saving Queensland, Noosa Hills Surf Life Saving Club, and the SLSQ Sunshine Coast branch regarding the long-term future of life-saving patrols. The mayor is quoted in that media release as saying, we feel confident that the new lease arrangement will see the existing building utilized in ways that are genuinely suit the residents of Three Engine Beach. So, that was in September. What's happened? Why are we now moving to EOI?
03:46:00 Speaker 9: I think in a lot of correspondence, use of the word permit and lease are sort of interchangeable. So, we are still maintaining the services, which is what the agreement is about there, with regard to Surf Life Saving patrols, surf sports, and nippers. So, that is, you know, that's recognized in this report. And it's looking to utilize in the short term the upstairs space of that building. Mayor Wellington: Given that I was quoted, can I answer also, please? The arrangement with the SLSQ, and I was present at the meeting where we discussed it, and Noosa Heads Surf Club were there also, as were staff, was that we were looking forward to SLSQ working with the community to build bridges between the community groups and to begin to develop the capacity in the community for a Peregian based surf life saving club to
03:47:00 appear there, to grow from community interest. And unfortunately, there have been a number of changes at a high level in SLSQ. They have not been particularly communicative, and certainly from where I sit, they haven't actually met their agreed obligation in that regard to try and progress a community club. Councillor Jackson: Also, Dennis, thank you for, on my request, providing the 1987 Gazettal notice that specifically gazetted the site of the Peregian Beach Surf Life Saving Club as a reserve for local government surf life saving purposes. And I also have a copy of the land title that also refers to surf life saving. My question relating to this is, have you obtained legal advice to check that in fact it is appropriate to go and ask for an expression of interest for some other community group
03:48:00 type use other than surf life saving? Speaker 9: We are in regular discussions with the department, who we sort of serve as trustee in this respect. So we've had discussions with the SLSQ. We're not legal advisors. And they said there would be a need for users to strongly align with that surf life saving process without looking to preempt, you know, the results of the EOI process. I think it's reasonable to say that if Council has appetite for a proposal under the EOI responses, that we would certainly be dealing with the department further to get their blessing on any direction of proposed use of upstairs. Speaker 8: So then just to clarify that, what you're saying is that if we go over to an EOI and we end up with how many applications we've got, then we would go back as part of that
03:49:00 process before Council's decision to say these would meet that criteria of the department, would be comfortable for these to meet the purpose of the trust as part of the normal process? Speaker 9: Yes. And probably particularly if there were a couple that we're looking at. That's right. That's right. And yeah, that's just a natural course of looking for a sort of a secondary use permit on trustee land. Councillor Jackson: So I'm interested to know, because of course we all remember that we had another example where a part of trustee land was being looked at by, for the purpose of the waterfront restaurant. And there was a very strong sense by Council that we must not do something that is ultra useful. And so I'm just wondering whether this is not a similar situation, that in fact it would be ultra vile to progress without legal advice here. Speaker 9: Well, we would get the advice from the department before considering moving to a permit.
03:50:00 Speaker 8: I could probably add to that. What we're doing today is not making a decision about what use we'll make under the trust. What we're doing is the EOI process. So I'm just wondering whether this is not a similar situation, that in fact it would be at the decision making stage, depending on what advice we've got from DNR. Speaker 9: Okay. Speaker 8: So I think if DNR were comfortable that it meets the purpose of the trust, that we're looking to make a decision under the EOI, then that would be a valid question at that stage. But at this stage, it's on the premature. The board is only looking at the EOI process. Councillor Jackson: Okay. Good. Dennis, the other question I have is, you've mentioned in your report, well first of all, you provided Form 11 Certificate of Classification, which is a certification for the work that was done to the building, and it's actually level one change of use within the same classification of licensed premises to clubhouse training room.
03:51:00 So I'm wondering if you are, your report says that the upper level has been vacant, but are you aware of that? Are you aware of what uses have been made of the upper storey by the nippers and the life-saving people? I am aware. Speaker 9: I am aware. And I'm also at the building. I'm inside the building quite regularly. Yeah. So I'm aware, and I am in the building. So I think you would say it's ad hoc use of upstairs. It's very sort of minimal use of that floor space, and I think it's certainly something that can be facilitated through a permit if council has to. Councillor Jackson: Do you know what it's been used for by the life-saving and surf life-saving? Speaker 9: It's been used for yoga. It's been used for nippers equipment, rashies and the like, which are in a little room off
03:52:00 to the side, and it's been used for gatherings and meetings, and also training from time to time. Councillor Glasgow: We are, like I said, this is only an EOI process. We're talking about all these different uses and activities that may come here. We don't know. There could be A, B, C, D, E, F, G, or there could be A, B, C, D, E, F, G, all the way to Z. We don't know what the EOI process is going to bring, do we? It's an exploratory process. It's an exploratory process. So we could have everything or nothing. So in the process of actually saying, like, having this talk about what can and can't go in there, what's being useful, why don't we just get this out and get the EOI process to see what the response is on having this conversation again in X amount of weeks or months?
03:53:00 That's the recommendation. Speaker 7: Yeah. That's why the report's up. Speaker 9: You're right in what you're saying, but as a matter of... Of course, we always, we always... Councillor Wilkie: So Jess, you're basically expressing support for advancing the EOI process. It's not really a question. Councillor Glasgow: Yeah, I'm asking why aren't we doing it? Why aren't we having all these conversations? Speaker 8: Who's the question director? Chair, I think that's not a big, I don't think that's a big question. Staff have made their recommendation. It's up to the councillors to debate it. Councillor Glasgow: It's confusing me by having all these conversations. Well, it's the council. So I'm asking, I'm asking why we're having so much discussion about it. Councillor Wilkie: Chair, if I may, can I just point to the councillor? This is, it's the right of the councillors to ask questions before debating the motion. I'll just go to the councillor Stockwell. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: So I've got a question in regards to the wording. So Cathy, if you could bring up that, there's a couple of pictures there, the wording and what I'm clearing is in our conversation with DNR under the secondary use policy or whatever it's about, whether it needs to be aligned to or ancillary with the purposes of surplus saving.
03:54:00 So because we have been, we've had representations made to us over the weekend about the nature of the EOI process, I don't think we're going to be able to answer that question. Next. So they're all uses in Surf Life Saving Clubs on Sunshine Castle. So there appears that the Department of Natural Resources has adopted a fairly liberal view in terms of what's aligned to a Surf Life Saving Club.
03:55:00 Is that something we've talked to about the nature of what Surf Life Saving purposes is now? Or is that something we need to think of? Councillor Jurisevic: What's your question to me? Deputy Mayor Stockwell: That's not Surf Life Saving, is it? That's gambling. A TAB or a UBET facility is gambling. Speaker 9: I think the State's secondary use of Trust RAN policy effectively grandfathers the Supporters Club component on these Trust lands. So it could be argued that the Supporters Clubs are verging on the antithesis of the secondary use policy and what it seeks on Trust land, but their historic uses in those locations and grandfathers... Deputy Mayor Stockwell: They preceded that. That's right. Does that policy make a difference between commercial purposes, which provide funds to not-for-profit, versus commercial purposes, which are private in nature?
03:56:00 Speaker 9: Absolutely. It says that commercial uses that are private in nature and effectively stand-alone aren't allowed under the policy. And it does acknowledge that these types of uses, it makes some provision for them. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: So that would go to some of that response about when we previously had advice about certain activities. Correct. That's all. Let's move mainly to Mr Chandler. Councillor Jackson: No, I've got some questions. Actually, just linked directly here is, is a LifeServe Life Saving Club also not a not-for-profit? Speaker 9: That's right. It is. Okay. Councillor Jackson: I just have a question, and that is to really help us contextualize also what currently Council pays or what the payment is for LifeServe Life Saving. We have a whole year of Life Saving. There's some things going on on weekends, some things going on on weekends, some things going on on weekdays. I'm a little unclear.
03:57:00 Yeah, sure. How much it all is and what it costs and who does it. Speaker 9: Yeah. So you're talking about the Peridgean site? Councillor Jackson: Yes. Speaker 9: So you have volunteer Surf Life Savers, who are club members that patrol on weekends and public holidays. Councillor Jackson: For which days? Speaker 9: During the season. So that's Saturdays and Sundays and public holidays during the season from September school holidays through to May, May back. And then you have paid SLSQ lifeguards, who are under a contract with Council for services throughout the year. So Council pays for lifeguards 365 days of the year. And during the season on those weekend and public holiday days, Council doesn't have to provide lifeguards on the locations in front of our three clubs. Councillor Jackson: So that's, just to clarify something, because I was told that one of the weekend
03:58:00 days is volunteer lifeguards and the other weekend day is actually the Noosa Heads Club hires lifeguards and pays for it. Speaker 9: Yes, it's taken the decision to do that to ease the requirements on its members to patrol. It's down at Peregian. So in lieu of providing volunteer patrols of a Sunday, it pays SLSQ lifeguards. Councillor Jackson: So what do we pay from September to May for the weekdays? Speaker 9: Those days, as well as the balance of the year, the Peregian site comes to around $195,000. Councillor Jackson: And do we know what a weekday is? Council, if there was no more volunteer served lifesaving on the weekends and from September to May?
03:59:00 Speaker 9: Not off the top of my head. Speaker 7: About 50,000. Councillor Jackson: Okay. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: I've got a question which follows. There is another revenue source that Council has provided by the coordination of the Peregian markets. Do we have an understanding of what the income is from that each year? Speaker 9: Yeah, the markets, the Peregian beach markets are currently run by the Noosa Head Surf Club and notionally we align the giving of that permit or the right for that permit with the service delivery on the beach. So we understand that in broad numbers it's around $70,000 net profit from those markets and we align the giving of that permit with the service delivery.
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04:00:00 Councillor Jackson: Can you explain that again? Speaker 9: Oh, well, in simple terms, there are lots of people in Peregian who would love to run the markets. So arguably it's a contested permit, but we align the giving of that permit with the delivery of the surf lifesaving. So it's a contested permit, but we align the giving of that permit with the service delivery on the beach. Councillor Jackson: So they may be subsidising the cost of the one day where they've got lifesavers by the market. Okay. Councillor Jurisevic: Joe, you have a question? Yeah, Councillor Jackson raised an interesting point going back to 2014 about the option for a 20-year permit down there. What was actually issued in the way of permit to occupy that spot? Speaker 9: Single-year trustee permits to occupy. Year on year. Year on year. And that currently exists? And a lease can be contemplated without a detailed strategic plan long-term for the site of the activation of a facility.
04:01:00 Otherwise, there just isn't the need for a long-term lease. Councillor Jurisevic: Well, I understand within that process, the existing equipment within the building, the bar and the commercial kitchen facilities were removed? Speaker 9: Yes. Councillor Jurisevic: Under that permit arrangement, and that facilitated a change of? Status of the space? Speaker 9: Well, those facilities were taken out by the club, and it engaged a building certifier to change the building classification upstairs, and I can't talk to that. Councillor Jurisevic: And the current classification is? Councillor Jackson: Training rooms. Training rooms. Councillor Jurisevic: Okay. One more again. So the use of something like yoga in there, or is that a? Training room. Speaker 9: I believe it's for members, I'm not sure. Councillor Jurisevic: It's just a member service offered by, that's what I wanted to clarify.
04:02:00 One other question with regard to the motion as it is, and within the EOI process, we're talking about a three year, up to three year process of lease to occupy without commercial activities at this point in time. Does that preclude somewhere in the future if a reactivation of a bridge insert club, full reactivation of a bridge insert club occurred from a bridge insert club applying in the future for commercial activation of that space upstairs? Speaker 9: No, it doesn't. There would be some steps that we'd have to take. To ensure that that was endorsed. Councillor Jurisevic: So if that went through, due process was followed and they established and they were strong enough and all the rest of it to occupy that space, we would look at a longer permit in a future consideration? Yeah.
04:03:00 Provided they had the capacity to. Speaker 9: Arguably, in talking about a permit up to three years, we're talking about a short term activation proposal. Councillor Jurisevic: Gives any entity an opportunity to show that they can continue on in that, in that, in that time. Yeah. Speaker 9: And or just utilise an underutilised space. Make use of the space equitable. Councillor Wilkie: Can I ask this? What permits are currently in play down there at the moment? Speaker 9: At the moment, we have no permits in place. Councillor Wilkie: So as a result of this process, is it intended that SLSQ is guaranteed a permit for the ground floor? Yeah. To be invited for, to make a submission to activate the top floor, they may end up getting a holistic permit? Speaker 9: Yeah. It depends. It's, it's intended that. Councillor Wilkie: Or if there's two permits issued, they'll both start at the same time. Three year permits. Speaker 9: It's intended that SLSQ's service delivery is protected under this proposal and, and
04:04:00 it's not guaranteed. Guaranteed the ground floor. Guaranteed. And that we explore options for upstairs which can include SLSQ or lifestyle improvement. Councillor Jurisevic: Yeah. And SLSQ in, in that process would be looking at other community activation in that space to, to complicate that? Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: Sorry, Frank's got his hand up. Councillor Pardon: Well, yeah, I've got a question and then I'm thinking of moving an amendment. Councillor Wilkie: You haven't asked the question yet, Frank. Councillor Pardon: I'll ask the question before I move the amendment. What if we take level one out of C? Read that one. Councillor Jurisevic: C. C. All use of the building . Councillor Wilkie: So it would be for the whole building. Yeah. Speaker 8: My advice to council would be to be problematical to try and compare a proposal that deals with the entire building to a proposal that deals with part of the building. If you're going to do a like for like comparison in an EOI then you should be comparing all of it on the same basis.
04:05:00 We wouldn't be able to assess. You couldn't assess one against the other. Councillor Wilkie: So to go to Frank's intention, if I may, if SLSQ is successful, tender to the top floor, then a more holistic permit would be issued. Or could be issued. Speaker 8: Correct. Councillor Wilkie: Ingrid, do you have another question? Councillor Jackson: Yeah, I do actually. I'm interested in the classification of the property, or whatever you call it, the clubhouse training room classification, which seems to be the certificate of classification we've received. Would that allow a change to having dining and a bar and poker machines? Speaker 9: Not under that classification, no. No. Councillor Jackson: And how would a reclassification take place?
04:06:00 Speaker 9: Well, through a bit of... I'm not a building certifier, and presumably through the process of those works being carried out as well. So understanding the... I assume it was done in relation to insurance and fire risk sort of issues that I'm not a building certifier. Councillor Jurisevic: Would that require a development application, Dennis? Speaker 9: For re-establishing... Councillor Jurisevic: For re-establishing? To put in a commercial kitchen and all those things? We think that would require a development application. Speaker 9: Well, in both a planning sense and a secondary use of trust land sense, it's probably uncharted waters to have a use such as that, which has been moved away from to such an extreme of reclassifying the building. I have a lot of experience in the planning context of the continuity of uses, and it would be almost a unique situation to talk about whether
04:07:00 the use had ceased by way of the proponent reclassifying the building. So potentially we need to explore secondary use of trust land aspect under any permit, but also in a planning sense whether a development application would be invoked. Councillor Jurisevic: That seems to be contrary to the question I asked before and the answer you gave previously, that in the event that somewhere down the track, a Pregian-based Surfly Saving Club re-establishes, the commercial activities could take place upstairs. Speaker 9: I guess what I'm saying is they're not precluded, but there are steps to go through. Councillor Jurisevic: I would have thought a development application would have been one of those steps. You're saying the steps would be different from a development application? Speaker 7: Sorry, DNRM would probably require... They'd probably consider it a significant change in use, and Brian would probably know this.
04:08:00 They'd probably look at a land use management plan requirement, and that includes extensive consultation with the local community. So there are steps they'd need to go through, but it doesn't preclude that. Councillor Jurisevic: That's why a development application would be the community consultation. Possibly. Okay, so some form of community consultation phase would have to be undertaken before... Speaker 9: To re-establish. Councillor Jurisevic: To re-establish a plan. That clarifies things. Councillor Wilkie: On the weekend and the last fortnight, I attended two events, with the newly established Peregian Beach Nippers, and a fantastic amount of really good work has been done re-establishing that group from the Peregian Beach Surf Club. The Nippers derive from a broader catchment, but in the case of having young people back on the beach, that is neither here nor there. It's widely seen and supported as a great outcome. The organisers of the Peregian Beach Nippers have genuine concern
04:09:00 that all their hard work may be jeopardised by an EOI process which may involve another ocean-focused community group or any other community group occupying or utilising the upstairs in the off-season and also during the season. What assurances can be given in terms of the permits that are issued that can assure the Peregian Beach Nippers that their access as required can be given to the upper floor as needed? Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that's sort of outlined in the Good Neighbourly process and the need for the two uses to talk to each other and be complementary. And yes, we can mandate the continuing use in that way of upstairs, and I think that a community group using that space would want to do that. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. Mayor Wellington: Thank you. Thank you.
04:10:00 My angry eyes. Sorry, that's a joke from Toy Story. The upstairs space in the club building is currently underutilised. Yes, there's some yoga going on and various other bits and bobs, but really, it is a community facility that's significantly underutilised at the moment. And we know that there are a range of community groups telling us that they would quite like to use the top floor of the building for ocean-related or surf lifesaving purposes. Council's long-term aim remains to see a new locally-based Peregian surf lifesaving club that is viable operating out of that facility. However, that's not going to occur in the short term in a hurry because it takes some significant time. We need to make an effort to develop the capacity to be able to run a surf lifesaving club. So in the meantime, we have to look at the best possible use in the community's benefit for the facility.
04:11:00 I reiterate that in the meeting that I participated in last year with SLSQ, they committed themselves to working towards that same outcome that Council idealises. Unfortunately, not much progress has been made in that regard. So here we are with an underutilised facility. There are various groups wanting to use it, including SLSQ, it now seems, as a result of their letter. So I don't see any problem with going out to an ELI to let each organisation provide us with their case. This process flushes out a range of options and that can only be to our benefit because we'll get to see on the table in one hit all the different ideas that are fermenting at the moment, both from the SLSQ and various community groups, including what's called Surf Lifesaving Peregian, which is an arm, it seems, of Noosa Head Surf Lifesaving Club and others. The alternative would be that we either simply allow the building to be underutilised,
04:12:00 or else the only other alternative is to choose one group over all the others without seeing exactly what's on the table and without having a democratic opportunity for them all to be able to make a bid. Just a reminder that at the end of this ELI process, we are not committed to actually giving tenure to anyone. We can get through this process and determine that none of the applicants are appropriate. So we have that option and it'll be an interesting debate when we get to it. I also remind councillors that in this new version of the staff recommendation, which is now my motion, that the SLSQ will be invited to bid. And what's more, the ELI conditions make sure that the successful tenant must coordinate and cooperate with the downstairs use. So whatever the outcome of the ELI process, the state as landowner is going to have to give it some degree of imprimatur. So that resolves perhaps Councillor Jackson's concerns about whether it's appropriate
04:13:00 to the purpose of the use of the land. DNRM are going to be involved in the end. And I don't think we have to go and pay for legal advice before we go to DNRM. Let's get DNRM's advice. Without having to waste Rape Farm money on legal advice. So all in all, this is a fishing process. And hopefully we'll end up with some very exciting concepts to choose from. And that we'll be able to make the upstairs work with the existing use downstairs. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. Councillor Pardon. Yeah, Mr Chair. Councillor Pardon: I'll support the motion today, but I'll just reserve judgement for what might happen in the future. A la Thursday night. I'll support this. And I concur with the Mayor's comments pretty much. Some of the staff comments there about, you know, possible good neighbours and that type of thing
04:14:00 and collegiance between various groups. To me, it could be drawing a long bow. That's supposition. I've seen community groups before and it doesn't always work out that way. But seeing in the main here, as was said by the Mayor, doesn't really commit council to anything hard and fast. I would caution on the three year timeframe that's in this report. I'm not sure that would take three years. Others say it would. I don't really know. Also, there's a conversation to be had between Surf Lifesaving Queensland and the Mayor and CEO, I understand, this Thursday. And I don't know what the new CEO of Surf Lifesaving Queensland might or might not put forward.
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04:15:00 Certainly, I don't want to put them off. When they request, you know, access to top and bottom, you can say, well, you know, put in a submission for one level. Is that an inhibitor? Is that a, you know, red flag to them to say, well, you know, we're only ever going to get one for three years. It was written that way. An agreement was written that way. Are we only going to get access to one level for three years? So. So, yeah, I'll look forward to the process going forward. I'm just interested to see what does pop out of here. But reluctantly, I'll go with this at this stage. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Jackson. Yeah. Councillor Jackson: The land use has been gazetted as Surf Lifesaving.
04:16:00 Noosa Head Surf Lifesaving Club and the Surf Lifesaving Queensland have been dedicated to providing Surf Lifesaving for each and each. Noosa Head stepped in in 2014 to save a bankrupt club. And they paid out debt. And in fact, that not only changed the upstairs. I mean, there's a lot of talk of removing kitchens and bathroom bars. But actually, also, as I understand it, the whole deck area, outdoor deck was dilapidated and dangerous. And so they spent 100,000 renovating that whole area. They restarted Peregian Beach Nippers and they've re-energized the Peregian Beach Volunteer Lifesaving. In addition, because of the renovations. The upstairs area is now classified as Surf Club Training Room.
04:17:00 And I think that is a good thing because that protects against the dreaded pokies which Councillor Stockwell showed pictures of. I don't think any of us, and certainly not I, would want to see poker machines introduced there. I don't think that's necessarily what these Surf Lifesaving people are on about either. Because everything I've seen is that they're on about trying to provide safety for the community and learning and involvement for young children. So they can become part of the community as they grow up to become Surf Lifesavers. I actually see the Surf Lifesaving activities and the nippers as a community building thing. And from what I understand, there has been a fair bit of use of the upstairs area.
04:18:00 I have visited there just as recently as on Friday to have a look around. And I can tell you that downstairs, which is the downstairs area, is fully full of equipment, boating stuff, and vehicles. And you know what? It smells of petrol. It's puke. So it's not a place where you can hold training sessions or any other functions for any of the Lifesavers or the nippers. My understanding is the training upstairs, the upstairs training room is in use. That is used for training and assessment of Lifesavers and also training the adults who are supervising the nippers, including parents. The training occurs for nippers because it's not just on the ground. On the beach training. There's also audio, visual, and theoretical training that they need to get as nippers.
04:19:00 And there's a training, a nippers uniform shop. There are meetings related to running Lifesavers and nippers. And of course there are functions. Some get togethers. Recently a great event for the nippers and medal awards. Thank yous to the local Lifesavers. And various other fundraising activities. Because they can still hold a sausage sizzle even though there's not a full kitchen. As I understand it, the Surf Lifesaver Queensland and Noosa Head Surf Lifesaver Club are happy to extend the use of the upstairs floor to other community groups. I have an understanding that volunteer community groups need more than just coming into work. They also need a place where they can socialize. And be part of it. And that's one of the problems where that sort of is gone. You may actually erode the whole volunteer network.
04:20:00 Because people are doing it voluntarily. Meanwhile, I have to say that Peregian Beach is one of the places that is getting the most support, financially, for the community. There's already a community house. And council has now committed millions of dollars to building a brand new community house for the community. And that's one of the problems where that sort of is gone. Which will be a great service to all the community groups there. And it's a great thing. But for that reason, I cannot understand why we would not continue the proud and long tradition of Australia of surf lifesaving and not support, continuing to support this building as a surf lifesaving building. I, therefore, do not support progressing to a community house. I do not support moving to an EOI with the upper story. And I actually see that process as further continuing the discord that is occurring in
04:21:00 the community. And furthermore, it will mean that if we don't bite the bullet now, council will again be faced, next time it comes to council, with making a decision. So I will not support the EOI and I call a division, please. Thank you. Councillor Wilkie: Look, as someone who lives in the Preaching community, I can say that this is the shortest distance towards a point where it will end the division, caused by uncertainty and a lack of clarity about the future of this building, which has been uncertain since 2014. Since that time, there's been the will to work together, the council, the community to work together to deliver a community-focused, village-sized, village-scaled operation on that site.
04:22:00 It hasn't happened, and there's a lot of water under the bridge, and all the divisions in the community will never agree over what happened in the... past. But this EOI process is a fair, open, and transparent way of having all the players put their cards on the table and make it clear about what their intentions are for the use of that building, the upper floor I'm referring to, to end this uncertainty. And that the uses can be determined by council at a later date. The people who are interested in the EOI process are the people who are interested in the EOI process. The people who are interested in putting in submissions for the top floor. What they want is a fair process. If they don't get up, at least they will have, if their submission is not supported, at least they will have had their submission weighed up according to fair criteria as to the value that can be added not only to the NIPAS program that currently exists there, but to the broader community.
04:23:00 Expression of interest process is the fair and open way to reveal the range and the quality of these proposals, and to assess these proposals against criteria and determine the best outcome. SLSQ will be guaranteed a permit for the ground floor, and they can also submit a proposal for the top floor to be assessed along with all others. Training and assessment of life savers and NIPAs during the season, which is a small portion of the year, can continue to occur throughout the year. With life-saving services locked into the ground, an EOI process will be able to determine which proposal best uses the space upstairs, and supports and complements the NIPAS program held on weekends in the warmer months. The Shared Community Space proposal is a similar concept to the combined Surf Club and Youth Centre in Busselton, Western Australia, which operates successfully from a one-storey beach-sized building.
04:24:00 Given the strong interest in running programs from this prominent community, the NIPAS program will continue to operate. An EOI puts all applicants on an equal and fair footing. An EOI process should also require submitters to state how their proposal will complement and help the long-term sustainability of the newly established NIPAS program, the return of which has been hailed as a great positive for Noosa community. Some of the proposals, supported by an alliance of community groups, academics and Parisian village businesses, have the potential to not only enrich the skills and knowledge of the NIPAs and the parents, but prove to be such a drawcard that I wouldn't be surprised if enrollments for the NIPA program at this particular Surf Club grows exponentially in future years. It is also important to note that the NIPAs was run from the building and the upstairs was operating as, and full of furnishings and equipment for, a commercial restaurant, kitchen, bar and poker machine lounge. Since the kitchen, bar and gaming machines were removed, the upstairs has been largely vacant and used on an occasional basis.
04:25:00 This can continue. It can be permanent. The whole process has also highlighted the strength of contributions to beach safety by Council-funded lifeguards contracted through SLSQ who patrol the beaches almost 300 days a year, seven days a week from May to September, five days a week during the season from September to May, with volunteer life savers patrolling on weekends from September to May, about 70 days. To them, I make a note of thanks. Council and the community have been seeking an outcome here for five years, and talks with Surf Life Saving Queensland and strong interest from the community groups has led to the point where an EOI is proposed as the most equitable and efficient way forward towards having permits issued. If a poker machine lounge and bar were seen to be permitted land uses consistent with land life-saving purposes on the site in the past, then surely ocean-focused education and events and other whatever may come up that complements surf life-saving schools, complements Nippers,
04:26:00 surely that could be accommodated under the latitude shown to poker machines and bars allowed on leases for life-saving purposes where surf clubs exist across Queensland. Again, if SLSQ is concerned about losing access to the top floor, then that can be conditioned. That's entirely possible. It's entirely reasonable to continue under any new arrangement. If they have a new proposal for level one, then they are free to submit their idea along with all others. Peregian and Noosa Shire is potentially on the cusp of a new model for community-led, fully integrated surf and ocean centre that adds enormously to the skills and understanding of our younger generation, and that clubs around Australia may wish to adopt. An EOI process, again, is the most equitable and open way for this to occur.
04:27:00 So I support the recognition that it's here. Council, Glasgow. Councillor Glasgow: I'll put on the record that I fully support this being a surf life-saving function. I fully support it being a commercial entity upstairs to support the downstairs supporters club that runs in every surf life-saving function across Australia. In terms of surf-based education, there's plenty of space in the square right behind me. I don't support the whole process of going around and having this whole, although this is only not a decision-making process anyway, I don't support this. I want this to be 100% surf life-saving or nothing but in a commercial entity upstairs running in line with what the Peregian people want, a small boutique-style surf life-saving club that they can be proud of.
04:28:00 We're not Wollongong. We're not Western Australia, whatever you said about doing one level, one stage thing. That is Peregian Beach. It is unique and different by nature. And they should have a surf club that they are proud of and that they can relate themselves to. And I fully support that function happening. The land use states it's for a surf club. It's not for an education-based facility. And I want to see that in the future, in the very near future, I should say. Very quick and near future. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Stockwell. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Oh, yes. So there's two ways to look at this one. We can look back at the turf wars and try and look at it through that light. And the other way is to look forward. If we're going to look forward, we should base it on policy. And we have a policy council. We adopted it in 2018. It's called the Sport and Active Recreation Plan. And the recommendation, which we agreed to in that plan, said encourage partnership opportunities for government, non-government, commercial and not-for-profit organisations
04:29:00 where there are significant benefits to the community. Oh, that could be something that comes out of an expression of interest. It says, investigate options for co-location of those entities. Oh, that could come out of an expression of interest. There is no doubt that the primary use of this site has to be for surf life saving. But I, like Councillor Wilkie, think that we need to look at it from the perspective of what this gives us the opportunity is a new model for what surf life saving in local communities can be. When I was a, I never managed to swim enough to get my bronze medallion. But in the 70s, surf life saving clubs didn't have the pokies, the gambling establishments and the bars upstairs. They had the beds where you go and sleep at night. So it's changed over time. And for me, it's time that in Noosa, we see if we can get another model that isn't reliant on creating social harm to fund social good. And in this case, we have the opportunity to divorce the fundraising from the use of the building. The fundraising, as we've heard, $70,000 presently going to the community, to the club as a result
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04:30:00 of the market. So to me, the expression of interest does give the opportunity to see where there is opportunities for a different mix of uses. There may be ones that come out of the woodwork that we don't know about. To me, I think that's a good thing. I think it's important that we do go through this process. And for my perspective, the most desirable outcome is a collaborative model that makes maximum use of upstairs, where the surf life saving has as much use of it as it needs and wants, and that other users can take advantage of what currently is a dead asset. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Jurisevic. Councillor Jurisevic: Geez, we get some tough ones. Councillor Jurisevic: It's a surf life saving club. It's always been a surf life saving club. The term commercial gets bandied about, and unfortunately, it casts a strange light in some instances. What a lot of people think commercial means is that it has to be a surf life saving club
04:31:00 that's open to the public, that everybody can come and frequent, but precludes the use of it as a member's facility with a bar where, like any one of our sporting organisations that are out there, and two that I'm associated with, the rugby club and the career club. They don't have 365-day use. Soccer club? Councillor Stockwell's sitting next to me. They don't have 365-day use. I mean, the facility's there. It's not utilised day in, day out. The bar isn't frequented day in, day out. Yet, the members have the opportunity to partake of socialisation, as Councillor Jackson put it. That's social activity, and that's a social function that stems from the activity down below. People like to, after a hard day's surf life saving, have a quiet, cold drink or sit around and chew over the fat of the day and all the rest of it. It doesn't have to happen every day. The idea of this use being expanded beyond anything of that, okay, challenges a number
04:32:00 of people. We've had a commercial activation of that and a full life saving club there in the past, and unfortunately, it failed. And it's got us to this point over time. We're in a time where whatever has tried to reactivate that space and the full, fully functioning surf life saving club hasn't been able to get out. We've had Noosa heads move in and, to their credit, clear the decks and enable the reactivation of the space, albeit with some challenges along the way, but finally getting nippers and surf life saving activity back on the beach, which is a primary function. And I think the Mayor alluded to that. I think everybody wants to see a sustainable life saving club. I think everybody wants to see a successful surf life saving entity on that beach, maintaining it with the local community looking after their services in conjunction with professional services provided by Surf Life Saving Queensland, as we do on our other beach.
04:33:00 I'm reluctant to support this motion in that it sort of draws away from those uses, but given that the activation of the space hasn't been able to happen over a period of time, I am at least in some way prepared to see what can come. And the only reason I support this motion is because of the change the Mayor has made to it in part C, and that is that we will actively engage Surf Life Saving Queensland in the process and see what they can come up with. It really is my preferred option to see it remain as a sustainable life saving club. But it may be that Surf Life Saving Queensland and whatever else is around may not be able to utilise that space fully, and may be able to join in conjunction with other entities for that space. I concur that we are about to build stage two of the Bridget and Hubbell.
04:34:00 We're about to build a significant community facility down there, which community groups have activation for. I think the challenge for this space in the future is that it's an old building. I think the challenge for this space in the future is that it's an old building. I think the challenge for this space in the future is that it's an old building. It's an old building that needs to be reactivated. It's going to need some dollars and some sense put into it to make it a viable entity for the next 20 to 30 to 50 years. And that's the only reason I support this. Until there is someone with the money to stump up for that, and the opportunities to stump up for that, it may not be viable as a fully functioning supporters club. But as I said, for me, I can see it being a low key sporting organisation like any other organisation that provides for its members, and can provide a meeting space for the community to go in there, engage that, actually use that lease to provide the space and make it available to the community as many other entities do.
04:35:00 So yeah, reluctantly, I'm going to support the launch. Councillor Wilkie: Councillor Warren, do you wish to close? Mayor Wellington: Yes. There's a couple of things that need to be said. I just want to confirm that, yes, at SLSQ's request, myself and staff will be meeting with them on Thursday. They haven't given us an agenda. So we'll find out on Thursday what they want to talk about. Councillor Jackson noted that the land use has been gazetted for surf lifesaving, but arguably yoga isn't surf lifesaving. So quite plainly, there are a range of complementary activities that these sort of buildings can get put to, and yoga is perhaps just one of them. I don't see a problem, therefore, with there being other complementary activities that can work with the lifesaving service. I do want to acknowledge that Noosa Head Surf Lifesaving Club did make renovations, reinvigorated the volunteer lifeguard service, and reinvigorated NIPAs.
04:36:00 And I think that we should all be congratulating Noosa Head Surf Lifesaving Club for stepping in and carrying on those activities. They didn't have to do it. They did it at their own risk. They did it at their own volition. And on behalf of Council, I would certainly like to thank them for putting in that effort. The upstairs use, in my impression, whenever I go to Peregian, it's locked up. I'm sure it does get used for occasional training, and arguably that sort of use can continue to occur alongside other uses. I do feel that the existing use at the moment is being a little bit overstated by some community groups in order to, you know, foment their particular agenda. Nevertheless, I don't think it is currently being utilised to the best capacity for the sake of the community. A couple of councillors have raised the issue of other spending on capital works projects in Peregian. I don't think that's relevant here. What we're talking about is trying to activate an existing facility that needs to be utilised.
04:37:00 What we're spending elsewhere in Peregian is irrelevant to that as far as I'm concerned. Look, if we don't progress to an EOI, then the alternative is to tie the building up with one particular user. If that user happens to be SLSQ, they are not a provider of surf lifesaving services. They are a parent organisation, a facilitator. They don't run surf lifesaving clubs. We would still need them to try and activate a community, find a community group that could work towards that outcome. Ultimately, this EOI process will do the same, I hope. So, you know, I think this is a logical way to progress. When it comes back to us, we will no doubt have some very interesting discussions about the essential use of the building, both upstairs and downstairs. In the meantime, I'm sure we'll be lobbied and get to talk to all the different players in this particular landscape. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you, Councillor Wrighton. Deputy Mayor Stockwell: Can I just? No. No. No, there is a statement there that I think we, that during an EOI, are we allowed to
04:38:00 be lobbied? The right of reply. Speaker 8: The right of reply is an exercise. Mayor Wellington: I'll continue with my right of reply and remind councillors that once the EOI process opens, the applicants will not be able to lobby councillors. You're quite right, Councillor Stockwell. Councillor Wilkie: Thank you. I'll put the motion. Those in favour? It's Councillor Wellington, pardoned, Stockwell, Jurisevic and Wilkie, and those against? Councillors Jackson and Glasgow. Thank you, Dennis. We now move on to the last item on the agenda, which is the financial performance report, which is on page six of the general committee agenda. Thank you.
04:39:00 When are we due to see an update on the? No. No. No. No. Councillor Jurisevic: No. No. No. No. No. Speaker 8: No. Councillor Jurisevic: There was another question in the same, just a little bit, there's local laws, like temporary bin services, I'll talk to Wayne about that, I'll have a talk to him in a little bit. I think Councillor Pard will probably ask a question about Sunrise Beach Shops.
04:40:00 Councillor Pardon: Yeah, I will. Councillor Jurisevic: I'm going to ask that one while I go through and try and find my question again, because I didn't actually take a note of it. Councillor Pardon: Yeah, I will. So, on page 8 at the top, with regards to the lease revenue for Sunshine Beach Shops, as I've raised a few times in meetings about this particular issue, and I understand staff are in negotiations, I'm talking, I guess, about some sort of rent relief. So, yeah, I'd like, well, a question, otherwise I'll speak about it. I might speak about it in a moment, I might move the motion. Councillor Wilkie: Okay, moving the motion, Councillor Pard. Yeah, we can ask questions as we go. Questions, you can ask. Sorry, seconded, Councillor Jurisdict. I don't think I've seconded anything, do I? All right, go on. Councillor Pardon: Yeah, so what I would like, Councillors, with regards to this item in this report going forward,
04:41:00 thank staff first up. Financials are looking pretty good to me, but they always do, and that's due to the prudence of this Council, and our good staff. With regards to this lease, Sunshine Beach Shops, I would ask ASAP for a report back to Council, with regards to where we're at and the way forward, with regards to some rent relief, et cetera, for the shops that exist there. You know, they're told that, we're in negotiations, and that's fine, but. Councillor Wilkie: Sorry, where are the reports, your reference to the shops? Page 8. Councillor Pardon: Top item.
04:42:00 Page 8, lease revenue. Oh, yes, thank you. So, yeah, I just wanted to get that point across, that as soon as possible, we're at, with regards to some rent relief for the existing shops, Councillor Jurisevic: we're having a favourable run with our contract, in fact, it's a bit conspicuous on the contract. I would have thought the contract would have run true to value, unless, is there any reason why it's not at full contract value? Speaker 7: Without going into, you know, the waste contracts, as is budget development based, in terms of number of services. So, without us delving in with waste, in terms of how many services are being delivered versus budget, it's a little bit difficult to try and determine.
04:43:00 I'll touch base with that. And whether it's a timing issue as well, in terms of, as we know. Councillor Jurisevic: I was just wondering whether that wasn't the real factor there, because it seems a fairly significant saving there. So, I'll touch base with that and just clarify on that. The only other question I've got for the CEO, which regards to staff training underspend, I see that further 81K is committed. Just out of curiosity, Mr CEO, what is the annual staff budget for training? You know off the top of your head? Speaker 8: I just thought, the question just came to me. Yeah, look, it's broken up into a couple of different elements. One's around workplace health and safety. The other one's about professional development. The other one's about leadership. They've broken up the three. I can't give you that off the top of my head, Joe, in terms of the total. Councillor Jurisevic: I might take the question on those and just clarify the overall budget, because I can't remember it either. That's it from me. Councillor Pardon: Just a question on page 11. They talk about interest rates going down, but the Bloomberg Osborne Bank Bill Index is up, actually,
04:44:00 to 2.3 from about 1.6 or so. So, is this a general, what's happening here? It's bonds, obviously. Speaker 7: They probably think the opposite. Sorry? If the bank bill raised 2.3, the index, they might be thinking the interest rates are not going down. Yeah. Councillor Jurisevic: It looks like they're on the way up there. It looks like it. Anyway. Just an observation. Speaker 8: We're getting healthy 2.6%. But you're doing good, always. Most of the economists are predicting the next RBA reserve bank moving a bit down, but the longer term, there's no doubt they're going to go up. Yeah. Okay. There might be some short-term movement, and the longer term, they can't go much longer up. Councillor Pardon: Yeah. No, but staff always do very well in top and that rates. It's good. It's good. Councillor Jurisevic: Nothing further? Councillor Wilkie: Move the motion. Oh, I moved. They moved.
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04:45:00 Any other councillors wish to speak to the motion? Okay. Frank, do you wish to close? Councillor Pardon: No. I've already thanked the troops down in the end for their clearance. Councillor Wilkie: Okay. I'll put the motion to those in favour. Engaged. The motion is carried. Councillors, thank you very much for your patience today. We hit a record? We hit quite a record. Speaker 9: I think it was pretty close too. Councillor Wilkie: Yeah. Speaker 8: Thank you.